Refrigerant R134a

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Auto Engineer
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Refrigerant R134a

Post by Auto Engineer »

I thought this might be an interesting question. Assuming no losses of refrigerant over several years, does the refrigerant R134a deteriorate with age?

Next question, again assuming no losses of refrigerant over several years, if the refrigerant analysed is 100% recoverable, once recovered into a Refrigerant Management Station the fixed orifice tube is examined and found to have traces of a dark black colour on it and seen some silver specs of what looks like maybe alloy. Is the refrigerant management station now contaminated?

Thank you for reading.
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wptski
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Re: Refrigerant R134a

Post by wptski »

I don't think R134A or any other refrigerant gets old. Most wouldn't reuse anything but they do sell inline filters to remove oil, dirt, etc. and it is legal under EPA rules that one can reuse refrigerant if it goes into the same vehicle or any of a fleet under the same owner.
Dougflas
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Re: Refrigerant R134a

Post by Dougflas »

I do not think Bill has it completely correct. In MVAC, refrigerant CAN be recovered and reused in another owner's vehicle.
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wptski
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Re: Refrigerant R134a

Post by wptski »

Dougflas wrote:I do not think Bill has it completely correct. In MVAC, refrigerant CAN be recovered and reused in another owner's vehicle.
We are both wrong is seems! https://www.epa.gov/mvac/epa-regulatory ... -servicing

I though that I read what I mentioned at the EPA site unless they changed the rules?
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Re: Refrigerant R134a

Post by Auto Engineer »

Thanks for the replies, I would assume that my refrigerant management station would have a built in filter that filters impurities before filling a air con system on a vehicle?
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wptski
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Re: Refrigerant R134a

Post by wptski »

Auto Engineer wrote:Thanks for the replies, I would assume that my refrigerant management station would have a built in filter that filters impurities before filling a air con system on a vehicle?
Not sure how whatever you are using works but I "assume" that it charges with virgin refrigerant that needs no filtering unless it has an option to reuse recovered refrigerant? I think these stations must follow certain EPA rules but depends on the age of the unit.

Backing up a bit here, Mastercool has a stand alone filtering unit: http://www.mastercool.com/product/69500/. If EPA rules state that can't be done, why would they have one for sale? Makes me thing they changed the rules. Why would I mention the thing about fleet owned which could lots of vehicles!
Dougflas
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Re: Refrigerant R134a

Post by Dougflas »

No, we are not both wrong. Recycling is done by a recycling machine. That machine will properly separate the oil and filter the refrigerant. This refrigerant can be reused in anyone's vehicle.

Next we have recovery machines. They do not filter or separate oil. The Mastercool filtering system provides a filtering system and oil separation for a recovery machine. This allows the refrigerant to be reused in anyone's vehicle.

Reclaiming is the process of making the refrigerant equal to new refrigerant. This is done by a reclaimer that will certify the refigerant as prue.

So we have recoverey, recycling, and reclaimation.
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wptski
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Re: Refrigerant R134a

Post by wptski »

Dougflas wrote:No, we are not both wrong. Recycling is done by a recycling machine. That machine will properly separate the oil and filter the refrigerant. This refrigerant can be reused in anyone's vehicle.

Next we have recovery machines. They do not filter or separate oil. The Mastercool filtering system provides a filtering system and oil separation for a recovery machine. This allows the refrigerant to be reused in anyone's vehicle.

Reclaiming is the process of making the refrigerant equal to new refrigerant. This is done by a reclaimer that will certify the refigerant as prue.

So we have recoverey, recycling, and reclaimation.
You stated above that refrigerant could be recovered and reused. That's not correct unless you have a recycling machine, correct? My Mastercool recovery machine has a filter and a oil separator but there are other models without those extras. I do have an additional Robinair external filtering unit.

Your equipment must meet SAE J2788 in order to reuse the R134A and although my recovery machine has an oil separator and filter it only meets SAE 2810. The Mastercool Recoverymate doesn't mention any SAE standards at all. It's all about the standards that makes it legal or not.
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Re: Refrigerant R134a

Post by Dougflas »

you're correct. My bad. I meant recycling, not recover. I did explain it correctly in a later post. GRINS
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wptski
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Re: Refrigerant R134a

Post by wptski »

Do you have a recycling capable machine? I did email Mastercool asking what SAE standards the Recoverymate conforms to.
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