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GM 1908-2008 :) Pages: 12

Streeter on Mon November 10, 2008 5:46 PM User is offlineView users profile

Country of Origin: United States


I thought I would get in early with a eulogy before it started to appear around the media. Ahh GM you gave us so many great motoring memories from the Chevette Scooter to the X car, and not forgetting the Corvette parked down the street with the paint runs, but alas, sadly you are no more and news of your death hasn't been exaggerrated. You will be missed...most likely by the U.A.W. lol.





GM 1908-2008 R.I.P.

mhamilton on Mon November 10, 2008 6:06 PM User is offlineView users profile

Hmmm... perhaps the Hummer wasn't such a good idea?

Honestly, I don't know how GM lasted this long. Dealer lots are overflowing with Suburbans, and yet they wonder why their sales have dropped out the bottom? I will be shocked if the government bails them, Ford, and Chrysler out. The market has spoken, subsidizing them so they can continue on their current path is just plain idiocy. Basic economics has already foretold their death. They're trying to continue producing millions of vehicles, where there is no demand. They either need to cut back production, or make something so much better than the competition that demand increases.

NickD on Tue November 11, 2008 6:47 AM User is offline

Not sure why I am sticking with my GM card, looked at all the 2008 models and not interested, did talk to several dealers and asked them, not a salesman, the guy in charge, if GM ever asks them for customer feedback as to what people want. They say, are you kidding? But yet GM and others say they are making what the customers want. Were any of you asked what you want?

Can't believe GM is spending all that money on the Volt without developing a battery, a good project for Delco battery except they ain't around anymore. Serves them right for screaming about high warranty repairs when another division was force to cheapen up the alternator and put the temperature sensing VR inside where it has no idea of what the battery temperature is. But they were screaming to, because the alternator was built to systems specifications and put in areas that far exceeded those specifications. But Delco and Delphi are no more, the bosses didn't listen to them either.

They were getting by while gas was cheaper, was only a couple of years ago, we were wondering if gas would ever hit two bucks a gallon. While just a small handful of people are left that maintain their own cars, really don't know anybody that does that around here. But maintenance has become so expensive, they are better off to trade it in, staying in constant debt.

Government sure isn't helpful, look what has happened to AC repair in the last few years, the rest of the vehicle is that way too. Ha, remember that 74 Olds add, over $5,000.00 for an Olds, just a couple of years earlier, $3,000 was more like it, and that thing was loaded with all that new emissions stuff that put sulphuric acid into the air instead of HC's.

Trend today is to load them up with the cheapest electronics and skyrocket the price, you know you are going to have problems and that phony 100K warranty doesn't cover all that crap, anything to sucker the customer. Can't argue with Toyota and Honda, but they are not making the cars they made in the 80's and replacement parts are way off the map. Can't even buy good gas today, 120,000 BTU per gallon gas was dropped to 96,000 BTU thanks to the EPA.

Getting very sick of cars, but need them to survive the way our society is, just a constant battle.

HECAT on Tue November 11, 2008 9:18 AM User is offline

Big brother bails (buys) the banking system, and soon to bail (buy) the big three.

Maybe we are just naively bypassing socialism, and heading straight to communism.

It's gonna hurt real bad, but capitalism dictates that unprofitable business should close.

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NickD on Tue November 11, 2008 10:26 AM User is offline

Mentioned have problems with my shop vacuum recently that I purchased in 1965, doubt if I could even count the number of different vehicles I had since then, they always have been throwaway items. And very expensive ones at that! I can't even imagine spending $60K for a new Cadillac and have someone run a shopping cart into it like they did with my new Cavalier. Cars were never made for the realities of life. Always have been fonder of vehicles made prior to 1949 when Detroit realized they needed something more like a double edged Gillette throwaway razor blade to have a continuous business.

My ex-father-in-law always asked me to come along as have the ability to deal on a new car, would trade off every two years, and even with the great deals I was getting for me, added up the cost over a ten year period and pointed out to him, he spent a lot more on cars in that ten year period than his home. His home appreciated in value, but doesn't have a darn thing to show for his cars.

I can't keep a car forever, some kind of time bomb in the metal that blows it apart into a pile of rust, so always looking and always trading, and parts cost today are totally outrageous. But I would be dead without a car as would practically everyone else in this country. Just saying, there is a need for automobiles. And if there is a need, has to be a supplier for that need. The energy crisis was a huge shock to us some 34 years ago, but not a thing was done, CAFE mileages are worse today than in 1985, going backwards.

What is going on today was just a matter of time, gas prices are getting lower today, but that is not going to last very long, we been on this roller coaster ride now for over 30 years, it's getting tiring.

Was always interested in economy, a motorcycle was a bad mistake, but did spend years driving with 25-80 miles per day, and that was money out of my families pocket. Suppose to go to work to earn money, not to spend it. Would like just a simple reliable vehicle that costs even a couple of bucks more using rust resistant brake lines, not ones that almost kill you even with a vehicle only about three years old. That was real common starting in the 50's, just paying a fortune for trash.

TRB on Tue November 11, 2008 10:53 AM User is offlineView users profile

Don't worry gentlemen, remember Obamie promised to fix every thing! So just hold on for a couple more weeks and the Messiah will appear!

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NickD on Tue November 11, 2008 1:21 PM User is offline

At least they are talking about it, but like any other large corporation, a bunch of way overpaid opinionated arrogant egotistical executives only interested in making a quick buck that do not have the right answers.

"Aides: Obama suggested more help for auto industry
Tuesday, November 11, 2008 8:17 AM EST
The Associated Press
By JENNIFER LOVEN Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) — President-elect Obama suggested to President Bush that the administration immediately help struggling U.S. automakers, aides to the Democrat say, in the first face-to-face meeting the pair had since Obama's election victory.

Obama's aides said the president-elect on Monday brought up the issue with Bush and discussed with him the need for urgent action. The Illinois senator's spokesman, Robert Gibbs, said only that the talks during Obama's first post-election victory to the White House were mostly "about the broad health of the industry" and were not just limited to any one of the three largest car makers.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid asked the administration over the weekend to consider expanding the $700 billion bailout for financial firms to include car companies. At a news conference last Friday, Obama said he hoped the Bush administration would "do everything it can to accelerate the retooling assistance that Congress has already enacted." He also said that helping the auto industry was a high priority for his transition team.

The White House did not reject such an idea. Presidential spokeswoman Dana Perino said Bush would listen to lawmakers if, when they come back for a post-election session, "they decide to try to do something more on the auto industry." She said Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson would review the rescue plan again, but also suggested the administration needs Congress' help to determine which industries might qualify for help under the new law.

Regarding any new economic stimulus plan, the White House has repeatedly stressed that its main priority is passage of a free trade agreement with Colombia.

The president and Obama also talked about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and financial crisis. At the same time, Laura Bush and Michelle Obama talked about raising daughters in the nation's most famous house. Then Obama flew back to Chicago to work on setting up the new administration that will take over on Jan. 20.

The 43rd president and the man who will be the 44th — and first black — commander in chief met alone in the Oval Office, with no handlers or staff. It was Obama's first time in the storied workspace, even though he had been to the White House previously for events.

Neither the Bushes nor the Obamas spoke to reporters. Aides who described the discussion about the auto industry did so on grounds of anonymity, citing the private nature of the meeting.

Perino said that Bush described the meeting as "constructive, relaxed and friendly," covering problems at home and abroad, and said he personally pledged a smooth transition. Bush gave Obama a sneak peek at White House highlights, such as the Lincoln Bedroom and the president's office in the residence, after their hour-plus in the Oval Office.

Such White House meetings have a history going back decades. They are discussions that can range wherever the two men choose, whether on specific issues, how best to make decisions, the extraordinary resources that accompany any American president, the special weight of the office or even the secrets about the building that few people are privy to. It's also a chance to establish personal rapport between near-strangers, though that is by no means guaranteed.

Outside, crowds built throughout the day with people pressing their noses through the fencing around the White House complex in hopes of getting a glimpse of the first family to be. Street vendors operating nearby were already stocked with Obama-related merchandise.

Bush and Obama met as the main transition news of the day was the Democratic team's preparations to rescind many of the incumbent's executive orders. Obama transition chief John Podesta said that the senator's aides were poring over all of them and will make such reversals among the new president's first acts.

Obama spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter said in a statement that no decisions have yet been made on executive orders. "Before he makes any decisions on potential executive or legislative actions, he will be conferring with congressional leaders on both sides of the aisle, as well as interested groups," she said.

Said Podesta, delivering a concrete rebuke of Bush only about 24 hours before the two men sat down together: "We need to get off the course that the Bush administration has set." "

TRB on Tue November 11, 2008 1:26 PM User is offlineView users profile

How many more companies does the US tax payer have to bail out? Why not just have the US take over everything and hand out the profits as they see fit!

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NickD on Tue November 11, 2008 1:51 PM User is offline

One fundamental rule in running a business is taking more money in than you dish out. I really do not understand the phase of keeping on shipping vehicles to dealers when they can't even find a spot to park them. Same is true in the RV world, seeing just rolls and rolls of fifth wheelers come in that the dealers can't move. Do the dealers have to take these? A lot of cash sitting there gathering dust and rusting away.

And how can people earn a living here when their jobs are being shipped overseas? Plus we are paying for a police action that is really not benefiting this country. The pot is running dry.

TRB on Tue November 11, 2008 2:00 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: NickD
And how can people earn a living here when their jobs are being shipped overseas?

Let's tax American corporations more! That will teach them to keep these jobs in America!!!!



-------------------------
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NickD on Tue November 11, 2008 3:12 PM User is offline

Quote
Let's tax American corporations more! That will teach them to keep these jobs in America!!!!

The way I heard it is:


Let's tax American corporations that are "sending jobs overseas" more! That will teach them to keep these jobs in America!!!!

But why not cut taxes for everyone, except the gas tax that is suppose to pay for our roads, I use those, and don't mine paying a little for garbage pickup, but can burn most of that stuff myself if there wasn't a burning ban. The rest of the stuff, I don't need, cops are only good for traffic tickets, and for defense, I have my own guns. But sure paying through the nose that I have no idea where it's going. Sure ain't helping me.

TRB on Tue November 11, 2008 3:19 PM User is offlineView users profile

So all the corporations keeping jobs is the US will not see a tax increase even if they make 250K or more? So no tax increase on the middle class. No tax increase on corporations "keeping" jobs in America. But in crease in spending by billions of dollars. Maybe it's just me but someone seems to be pulling a funny on the American people!

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CorvairGeek on Tue November 11, 2008 9:12 PM User is offline


They won't think it's funny when they figure it out, but the media will tell them it's still W's fault, so they won't mind as much.

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Jerry

TRB on Tue November 11, 2008 11:40 PM User is offlineView users profile

I loved the Matthews comment, short version, it's his job to make Obama look good!

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Streeter on Wed November 12, 2008 5:04 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Trend today is to load them up with the cheapest electronics and skyrocket the price, you know you are going to have problems and that phony 100K warranty doesn't cover all that crap, anything to sucker the customer. Can't argue with Toyota and Honda, but they are not making the cars they made in the 80's and replacement parts are way off the map. Can't even buy good gas today, 120,000 BTU per gallon gas was dropped to 96,000 BTU thanks to the EPA.

That is so true, 20-30+ years ago options used to be mechanical things like HD suspension, a/c and power seats, or an optional engine, these days it's bluetooth, sat nav etc. I think the old options gave you something real.

I like the comment above about the car makers giving us what we want. I heard this about why we were getting smaller cross-overs a couple of years ago, the car industry said the people asked for them, but what I really wanted was a new 1977 AMX Hornet...but no one asked me either.

I started this thread as a joke, but now the news reports are coming fast and it seems like it's becoming real! I feel like that Richard Burton in The Medusa Touch where everything bad he thought about started coming true, scary!

If GM and Chrysler did merge, that would make for some funny car shows, i.e. Chevy and Mopar sections together, weird.

2005Equinox on Fri November 14, 2008 5:50 PM User is offline

George W DID spend our money for his war in Iraq. Money that could have been used to help our own people. God hopefully we can keep our auto industry. I would hate to have to be forced to buy a Toyota or Honda. We can say what we will about Obama but at least he does talk about our economy. McCain hardly even mentioned it. I also agree the EPA has stuck their noses in too far. First cars and now you dont even have the choice as to what lawnmower you can buy. What is next?

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2008 Chevrolet Impala LS
1981 Pontiac Bonneville


2007 Sears Craftsman Lawn Tractor


1985 Chevrolet Caprice


1986 John Deere 165 lawn tractor

TRB on Fri November 14, 2008 6:00 PM User is offlineView users profile

So a Toyota assembled in California is worse then a Ford with Mexican made parts? I'll take the Toyota any day over one of the 3 "American" brands. Obama talked about all sorts of stuff, going to be interesting to see how he keeps all his promises when it becomes more than talk!

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JJM on Fri November 14, 2008 9:59 PM User is offline

I've always loved those big GM cars, like that '74 Olds 98 pictured above - a '73 was my first vehicle - but GM really needs to die. All those big GM cars were nothing but expensive problems, including my most recent example, the '05 Caddy DTS that has given me problems since day one.

A few weeks ago, at 106,400 miles (should've been done at 90,000), I did the timing belt on my wife's '01 Camry XLE... tensioner, idlers, water pump, crank and cam seals, timing cover seals, along with all the hoses (except the PITA crossover), belts, and thermostat. Don't know why I bothered with the cam and crank seals, not even the slightest bit of seepage. In fact, the entire engine was dry, not a leak anywhere. Compare that with this $60K DTS with 64,000 miles that's leaking oil everywhere. Apparently the half case seal is leaking... and it's not like you can just drop the oil pan, and drop the half case, and seal it back up - the entire engine, transaxle, and cradle assembly has to be removed from the vehicle to do the job (even to just change the oil pan gasket alone)... as is the case with almost work on a Northstar. Warranty is up, not something I really have the time to do, so it's gonna cost me at the dealer. Meanwhile, everything in the Camry is easily serviceable.

I've got this annoying creaking / groaning noise from the driver temperature door, probably because GM decided to save a few dollars with crappy plastic door instead of metal. Whole dash has to come out, along with the HVAC module. Almost hate to begin the job because as soon I pull apart the HVAC module, more things are liable to break. At least I'll be able to clean the evap and heater coil easily.

OnStar status light was glowing red, then green, then red. It's navigation antenna went bad, but of course only month after I had the rear seats out, rear air bags, and layers of rear shelf assemblies (a lot computers are back there) out to replace the radio navigation antenna, which is right next to the OnStar antenna.

And then there's the constant (like every other month) disassembling of various area of the interior to repair/replace switches who's back-lighting burns out.

As much as those big GM cars have been nothing but problems, I can't imagine driving anything else. Guess I'm a masochist, but I wouldn't shed a tear if GM died... they certainly deserve to die.

Joe

TRB on Fri November 14, 2008 10:05 PM User is offlineView users profile

Get a LS430 Joe if you like the big car feel!



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Contact: ACKits.com

2005Equinox on Mon November 17, 2008 8:29 PM User is offline

The Caddillac is in a different price class than the Camry. Of course its going to have more to break. Though the Caddy shouldnt be leaking oil at 60,000 miles. My 305 and 307 in the 2 old ones barely leak at all. I too as you can see like the big GM cars. But mine are the simple ones with not much to break. Though both do have rebuilt transmissions. The a/c's in both work pretty well but the compressors are pretty cheap. Wish with those there was the room to retrofit an A-6.

-------------------------
2008 Chevrolet Impala LS
1981 Pontiac Bonneville


2007 Sears Craftsman Lawn Tractor


1985 Chevrolet Caprice


1986 John Deere 165 lawn tractor

Streeter on Mon December 08, 2008 5:17 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
I've always loved those big GM cars, like that '74 Olds 98 pictured above - a '73 was my first vehicle - but GM really needs to die. All those big GM cars were nothing but expensive problems, including my most recent example, the '05 Caddy DTS that has given me problems since day one.

True, but one of these days the economy will turn around, gas prices are indeed already falling, and people will want sport trucks, big SUVs and all things large again (if history has taught us anything). When that day happens not even having a pretty lady stand next to a Prius will make it sell, lol.





Edited: Mon December 08, 2008 at 5:19 PM by Streeter

TRB on Tue December 09, 2008 11:38 AM User is offlineView users profile

10-worst-gm-vehicles-of-past-25-years

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NickD on Tue December 09, 2008 12:48 PM User is offline

See my 04 Cavalier is on the list, maybe I am nuts, but like that car, with the sport wheels, one of the best winter cars I have ever owned, have 55K on it. Initially complained about my knee hitting my nose the way the clutch was, but they installed an updated master cylinder to cure that, and was teed off my upper strut bearings when bad after 38K miles. But that was 40 bucks and a couple of hours of work. Have 55K on it now, has been trouble free. We get heat after a couple blocks of driving, car is quiet and have made long trips with it, buckets are quite comfortable and AC cools very well. Hauled some pretty large stuff in it with the drop down rear seat backs. Can get 42 mpg if I hold it at 55 mph, but normally 72-75 mph where it drops down to 35 mpg, always get 30 mpg around town.

Haven't looked for the last couple of months, but when gas was over 4 bucks a gallon, saw many of these on the lots selling for 7-9K, not bad since I only paid 7K for mine brand new. Use to use a nickel a mile for depreciation, but had to raise that to a dime, so with 55K on it, got $5,500 worth of use out of it so feel like I am getting my money's worth out of it. See a lot of people in my neck of the woods paying over a buck a mile for depreciation, cheaper to take a cab.

A car that should really be on that list is the Cobalt that replaced it, I looked those over carefully, now that is a POS.

HECAT on Tue December 09, 2008 4:54 PM User is offline

Did I miss the Chevette and the Citation on that "worst ten in the last 25".

Do you remember the compressor removal and crazy plastic shroud that had to come off to change the ignition rotor on the Chevette. The Service Manager at a shop I worked at in the 80's (Oh yeah, that is more than 25 years), would write this note on every Chevette customers Invoice; "Please total it, don't sell it, it will just keep coming back."

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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

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mhamilton on Tue December 09, 2008 10:16 PM User is offlineView users profile

Haha... yeah, time has a way of slipping by, doesn't it? I bought my Malibu as a spare car when it was 19 years old. Good god--it's going to turn 29 in 3 weeks! I feel like a complete anachronism driving down the interstate in it LOL

Geeeze... now the Corvette is going to turn 50!

I remember a friend having a '89 Corsica (brand new) with a lot of issues... some wacky electrical gremlin, when you would switch on the headlights the dash bulbs would all shut off. GM dealer had that for a while, but couldn't ever fix it... I don't think I ever looked into that.

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