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Frost Spray (HFC-134a) no restrictions

bearing01 on Tue July 08, 2008 2:22 PM User is offline

Hey all,

I'm working in the lab today and I picked up a can of "Freezer Spray" used to cool electronics or whatever gadget you shoot it at.



So I look on the side and it says 100% 1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane and I'm like ... wait a minute... that's R-134a. So I look up the data sheet for this stuff and sure enough:

Specification

MSDS

So what... we can't dump this stuff into the air when servicing AC but we can buy it as an aerosol spray to cool electronics or whatever we choose?

Another thing to note: The can says it chills to -62'F/-52'C. Most of us here know that R134a boils at -15'F at 14.7psi atmospheric pressure. I'm going to assume that the -62'F is the wind-chill effect felt as the high pressure evaporating fluid blows away the air-film layer from your skin.

Now I don't feel so bad for purging the air out my manifold hoses.

<A HREF="http://www.techspray.com/newmsds/english/ms1672aeng.pdf">Here</A>

NickD on Tue July 08, 2008 2:58 PM User is offline

Those dusters have been around for a long long time with the same unanswered questions about the EPA regulations plus the EPA states it's typical for a passenger vehicle to leak out 10% of it's R-134a per year and 50% of it for commercial vehicles. But if you have a half of an ounce of R-134a in your vehicle you better recover it.

Suppose you could visit your nearest EPA and tell them you are there to blow off their keyboards with a can of that stuff and see what they say.

Reminds me that my keyboard could use some dusting, but will use a vacuum cleaner with that brush attachment, hitting it with a blast of anything will just blow all that stuff back into the air where it will settle on my keyboard again and up my nose. Ah-choo.

HECAT on Wed July 09, 2008 2:36 PM User is offline

Its just the effective "bait and switch" tactics of our enviro society. Some enviro guy is typing away at new regulations on the release of refrigerant from automobiles only to stop and clean his keyboard with such a product. Why does it not say the common name of R-134a? why does it refer to its technical chemical reference 1,1,1,2.....? Did you know that many products that we understood to be banned, such as CFC's and HCFC's, are still manufactured for small can packaging. Many hazardous and harmful products that are illegal in any other form are still perfectly legal in such packaging size. I believe the spray can lobby has more dollars that the auto manufacturers lobby, and when it comes to getting our government officials on board with a topic, money talks.

Of course, they want you to understand that the automobile is the most gross polluter of all, and therefore all aspects of the automobile, its life, its service, and its disposal must be government regulated. No one wants to talk about the millions of keyboard dusters sold every year, the thousand other spray can products where a refrigerant is the propellant, the metric tons used for foam blowing, the thousands of pounds of refrigerant that bleeds over the nose of the space shuttle to keep it cool at 17,000 MPH. No, our government seems to believe it is more important to offer such things as 10 years in jail and a $25,000 fine to a technician if he/she releases refrigerant from an automobile.

Anyone up for a revolution? I am thinking about designing a new battle flag......

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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

bohica2xo on Wed July 09, 2008 2:45 PM User is offline

This was discussed here before, many times. The EPA can only regulate MVAC, and business.

134a makes a fine one-time refrigerant in many situations. I built several of these for blood & tissue transport, using the can as an evaporator. Placed in the ice, it only starts cooling when the can temperature rises far enough to open the relief valve - set so that if the ice is gone it becomes a backup:




Jerks have been know to steal the ice from shipments (Katrina), but left these alone.

.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

HECAT on Wed July 09, 2008 2:56 PM User is offline

mmmmm.... beer cooler

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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

MikeH on Wed July 09, 2008 5:04 PM User is offline

So, where do you get the valve and what temp does it cool to?

bohica2xo on Thu July 10, 2008 3:52 AM User is offline

Hecat: The thought never crossed my mind... (cough, cough)

Mike: It is an off the shelf pressure relief valve, and a flare fitting - both 1/4 NPT. Adjusting the valve holding pressure sets the temperature. Set it for 40 psi, and it lasts a lot longer than 15 psi... The can becomes the evaporator, and it usually is fairly quiet - I had one valve that would "hum" at 35psi, but 3psi either way it would stop. I originally made a few of these for the local VFD that did not have much on the trucks. The 134 lasts a lot longer if you start out with cold product obviously.

Makes a handy addition to your emergency supplies - like to keep your insulin cold during a long power outage...

B.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

NickD on Fri July 11, 2008 10:26 AM User is offline

I don't know anything about AC, but shouldn't the can be considered the reservoir and the action of the orifice in conjunction with canister the evaporator?

Depending on the size of the refrigerant container, the compressed refrigerant would determine the BTU capacity with knowledge of estimated ambient conditions and the thermal resistance of the canister to determine how long a can of refrigerant should last. But how would one determine if that time is sufficient when delays becomes a uncertain variable?

Wouldn't a mechanically or an electrical form of a canister be more practical that is capable of being operated from a number of different power sources for indefinite cooling potential? Even carry a spare one in case something goes haywire with the first.

Recall reading the value of the elements that compose the human body was only worth around 69 cents, maybe over a buck today. But a reusable human organ like a heart or liver can cost 100 bucks or even a lot more!

Just seems like a picnic type cooler with a block of ice in it is not very practical, I know that my FBO occasionally flies these picnic boxes around even though I never had the opportunity to open one up and play with what was inside. But the transportation expense for these human organs is quite expensive, seems like they need a better box to carry them in.

But what do I know?

Is a very clever idea though for what you came up with.

MikeH on Fri July 18, 2008 2:33 PM User is offline

Thanks B. Appreicate the info.

Edited: Fri July 18, 2008 at 2:34 PM by MikeH

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