Automotive Air Conditioning Information Forum (Archives)

wptski on Sat July 13, 2013 5:19 PM

Year: 1990
Make: Buick
Model: Century
Engine Size: 3.3L

Got this suggested part #37-23256 from AMA a few week ago along with other items. I pulled the OEM one out today. The OEM is 3 1/2"x 9 1/8" but this replacement is 3 1/2"x 8 3/4" but AMA shows the Accumulator as being 9 1/2" long. I measured wrong but the description is wrong as well. None of them fro a Buick match this size either!

Either way, it wouldn't be the exact size but how would/does that affect the system?

Edited: Sat July 13, 2013 at 5:21 PM by wptski

iceman2555 on Sat July 13, 2013 10:53 PM

Does not make a difference. Use it. It is more important that the system be fully charged than to be concerned with this size difference. After completion of the repair have the system properly recharged by a pro utilizing the correct equipment.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

GM Tech on Sun July 14, 2013 8:29 AM

agreed, -- nada, nil, zippo difference

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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

wptski on Sun July 14, 2013 8:45 AM

Quote
Originally posted by: iceman2555
Does not make a difference. Use it. It is more important that the system be fully charged than to be concerned with this size difference. After completion of the repair have the system properly recharged by a pro utilizing the correct equipment.
Thanks! Since I've seen the same wording mentioned in a few threads, I wonder how do A/C Pros feel when somebody brings in a vehicle to recharge after a DIY'r has replaced parts and not them? I know there can be a considerable markup on parts.

iceman2555 on Sun July 14, 2013 6:05 PM

As 'GM' so eloquently stated....nada...nip.....not sure about the most of the market, however, we do offer a evac and recharge for the DIY'er. Appointment only. Cash only. Since this is a service only, there is absolutely no warranty for this service. The invoice requires a signature (photo ID copy attached) that must be signed by the customer detailing this service. Got burned once.....not a tremendous problem.....but CYA now. This is a very good profitable service. Average cost billable @ 1.5 hours and parts. Evac and recharge....only.....the system does not work....compressor does not engage....system does not cool.....fans do not work...whatever else occurs...yes, this can be diagnosed. Please follow me and we shall write up a repair order for this service. Opps...a leak was found...no matter what or where.....it is a different repair. The service is for evac and recharge only....no other considerations. This should be explained to the customer prior to even allowing the vehicle into the shop.
This is just a policy...others may feel entirely different and this is also understandable.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

wptski on Thu August 08, 2013 10:51 PM

An added note about this accumulator. It came with four "O" rings. I assumed that the small ones were for the Schrader cap and the larger were for the standard 3/4" M/F fittings. The 3/4" "O" rings are way too thick compared to the OEM. AMA says that most don't even come with "O" rings, they vary by vendor and most often you have to supply them yourself. Don't know about that but shouldn't a "O" ring for a 3/4" fitting be a standard size and not vary by vendor?

The assortment kit that I got from AMA saves the day again!

TRB on Thu August 08, 2013 11:30 PM

You have 6, 8, 10, 12 o-rings plus the metric sizes. Both can be captured and non captured o-rings. Want the china man is tossing in a box is anyones guess. We always match o-rings with what is taken off the vehicle. Many times they match with the o-rings supplied but not always. And before anyone jumps on the Chinaman, back when these parts were made in the US, same issue.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Edited: Thu August 08, 2013 at 11:31 PM by TRB

webbch on Fri August 09, 2013 3:18 AM

Translation: The cost of tuition in MVAC school is:
a) dirty looks and "I told you so's" from the pros (plus extra $$$ you didn't plan on spending), when you bring in the vehicle to have it evac'd and charged OR
b) More expensive equipment and lost time (and sometimes components)

Choose wisely :-)

Edited: Fri August 09, 2013 at 3:19 AM by webbch

wptski on Sun August 11, 2013 2:49 PM

Went to connect a vacuum gauge to one of the two Schrader valve ports on this accumulator(AMA Part # 37-23256). They are a 1/4" thread but the end isn't tapered but just squared off. For that reason or just that the valve core is deeper, a stock core depressor tip doesn't reach it. Is this a special fitting or what? It was mentioned in another thread that on some R-12 GM products high side, one needs a deep reach adapter. I'd need a 90 deg M/F or a M/M and still probably have to use a mirror to see the gauge reading.

I wonder if a Thumbscrew Core Depressor has enough travel to reach the core?

Edited: Sun August 11, 2013 at 3:23 PM by wptski

wptski on Mon August 12, 2013 10:25 AM

Here's what it looks like.

mk378 on Mon August 12, 2013 10:31 AM

That's the switch port, isn't it? If your cycling switch is mounted somewhere else, you need to leave a cap on the accumulator port because shrader valves aren't designed to hold vacuum. Use the other port with the conventional fitting to evacuate and charge.

And most shops are like Iceman said, if you bring your own parts or did your own work they'll do only EXACTLY what you ask for, no warranty, no guarantee the car will leave working, no further diagnosis, etc. One of the quick lube chains was offering recover / evacuate / recharge services only, on those terms, they had simply brought in charging machines and would treat refrigerant like any other car fluid (including, I would assume, the usual quick lube deals of underfilling, overfilling, or just plain using the wrong stuff in the wrong hole). No one was further trained to do any more involved A/C work there. I don't know if that is still offered.

Edited: Mon August 12, 2013 at 10:52 AM by mk378

wptski on Mon August 12, 2013 12:57 PM

Quote
Originally posted by: mk378
That's the switch port, isn't it? If your cycling switch is mounted somewhere else, you need to leave a cap on the accumulator port because shrader valves aren't designed to hold vacuum. Use the other port with the conventional fitting to evacuate and charge.

And most shops are like Iceman said, if you bring your own parts or did your own work they'll do only EXACTLY what you ask for, no warranty, no guarantee the car will leave working, no further diagnosis, etc. One of the quick lube chains was offering recover / evacuate / recharge services only, on those terms, they had simply brought in charging machines and would treat refrigerant like any other car fluid (including, I would assume, the usual quick lube deals of underfilling, overfilling, or just plain using the wrong stuff in the wrong hole). No one was further trained to do any more involved A/C work there. I don't know if that is still offered.
It has OEM mounted H/L service ports on the lines elsewhere and the OEM accumulator didn't have any ports on it. Both ports on this accumulator look the same. The caps are cheap plastic type.

The system was vacuumed down to 200 microns. You lose a little closing the CRT and that CPS manual depressor in the picture below. It was 412 microns after 3 1/4 hours which is very good but I was just curious as to what it would be at the accumulator when I ran into this port problem. My '78 Corvette has a standard Schrader port on its OEM accumulator.

I sort-of remember reading something in a A/C book about a Aux gauge reading somewhere on the system which reacts differently. I don't remember any details about it though.





Edited: Mon August 12, 2013 at 12:58 PM by wptski

wptski on Mon August 12, 2013 2:55 PM

Do you mean cycling switch or pressure switch? I found a car forum with a posted question about accumulator ports with pictures. Can't tell exactly about the ports themselves but it showed a pressure mounted there and another capped port. Both ports were between the inlet and outlet. I'd assume that the pressure switch doesn't have a depressor, you must remove the core and mount the switch. My low pressure is mounted on the line.

I sacrificed a 90 deg. fitting that had a damaged seal(didn't even know that) by shimming out the depressor and cutting off the seal to match. I may try trial/error that.

Dougflas on Mon August 12, 2013 4:21 PM

when using CRT's, ou should close them and then reopen them and evacuate some more. They can hold moisture in their workings and this will work it out.

wptski on Mon August 12, 2013 7:17 PM

Quote
Originally posted by: Dougflas
when using CRT's, ou should close them and then reopen them and evacuate some more. They can hold moisture in their workings and this will work it out.

I posted my CRT issues in a HVAC forum and Chris from Appion replied the following:


Glad that your repeat use found the core tools to be leak-free. As for what might have caused the appearance of a leak:

There are very small cavities inside any ball valve, between the ball and the seal. These cavities can accumulate moisture, oil, and other "contaminants" during the evacuation. When you shut the ball valve, the trapped contaminants will release. Since this ball valve is right next to your vacuum gauge, the rise can be caused just by these molecules getting free and increasingly registering on the vacuum gauge.

Anytime you are concerned that this might affect your readings, at the end of the evacuation, partially close the ball valve on the core removal tool (about 75% closed) briefly before fully closing. I generally do this for the last few minutes of an evacuation. If there is contamination, you may actually see a surge in the micron reading, if your vacuum gauge is sensitive enough. Then, once the micron level is back where you want it, proceed with fully closing the ball valve.

Typically, a leak will QUICKLY rise past 2,000 microns (considering that atmosphere is as high as 760,000 microns). However, trapped contaminants in the core tool typically cause readings between 700 and 2,000 microns. If you suspect a leak or contamination, try the above step and see if that improves the results.


Christian Pena - Appion Inc.

wptski on Mon August 12, 2013 7:25 PM

Look at the end on this Robinair fitting. It doesn't have much of a flared end on it at all but of course, no core so no problem.

Fitting

mk378 on Mon August 12, 2013 7:43 PM

CCOT cycling switches are often mounted on the accumulator. They have a depressor to open the valve. That way you can R&R switch with the system charged. It appears it is a sort of universal-fit accumulator and you don't need either port for your car.

wptski on Mon August 12, 2013 9:56 PM

So it's not a so called standard 1/4" flare fitting, what's it called?

mk378 on Tue August 13, 2013 10:07 AM

It's not a standard fitting used in general industry. It's something that GM or one of their suppliers developed specifically to interface with their plastic pressure switches.

wptski on Tue August 13, 2013 10:16 AM

Thanks!