Automotive Air Conditioning Information Forum (Archives)

rmoiseenko on Wed May 29, 2013 12:31 PM

Year: 2001
Make: Saturn
Model: L300
Engine Size: V6
Refrigerant Type: 134a
Ambient Temp: 80
Pressure Low: 30 to 40
Pressure High: unknown
Country of Origin: United States

My 2001 Saturn L300 leaked all of the freon out during winter of 2012. Went to Auto Zone and was told to put stop leak in. Which i told him it goes to wrong places and clogs system. He convinced me and said he was a mechanic for 37 years. Against my better judgement i listened to him system had o psi at low pressure port. Told me to put one can of stop leak in then can of A/C conditioner and two cans of 134a. It didn't work went right through but wondering if stop leak is still in system. Went on Angie's list found mechanic that does A/C repairs he put can of freon in to find leak. Found leak changed gasket on low side tube that connects to compressor put 2 and 3/4 cans of freon in. Shop called me and said i must have blockage from stop leak thought it was in expansion valve doesn't blow cold air. Said he doesn't have evacuation equipment and to go to Certified A/C Technician . Pick up car know he should of evacuated the system before putting freon in. Went home checked Low side port outside temp 75 had car running A/C on high all windows down car at normal operating temp got reading of 80 psi which is high think it should be between 30 to 40 psi. Took car to a supposedly A/C certified technician shop said he evacuated system and put correct amount of freon in . Told me there is moister in the compressor due to the fact the first shop didn't evacuate the system. And said there was a slim 20% chance moister would evaporate by driving car with A/C on. Told me reading weren't fluctuating. Gave me estimate said i needed new compressor, expansion valve and accumulator. Cost 1,237.00 including labor. Told me car gets colder when your driving it and at idle blows warm air. Did drive it home with A/C on high did get colder while driving but not real cold. Checked low side reading when i got home with windows open A/C on high and got same 80psi reading. Thinking this shop didn't do anything and just wanted to soak me for unnecessary repairs he also said when i have the money he wouldn't charge me for evacuation and freon. I decided to to let pressure out of low side while car running windows down A/C on high normal operating temp outside temp 80 got pressure between 30 to 40 psi. Car now just blows war m air even while driving, My question does my compressor have to be tested and the system flushed in case stop leak clogged system up? Or do i just have to have system evacuated and recharged? Found a shop that does radiator and A/C repairs in Verizon Yellow pages and has super page guarantee and are Certified A/C technicians. What should i do in this situation?

Thank You

rmoiseenko

mk378 on Wed May 29, 2013 4:53 PM

If you used the "super" type of stop leak that hardens, it can't be flushed out once hardened. You will need to replace the entire system-- every part that touches refrigerant.

Also most reputable places won't touch a system that contains stop leak, because it does the same thing in their recovery machine.

rmoiseenko on Thu May 30, 2013 3:07 AM

Mk378 thanks for answering my post. Did use the Super Stop Leak wondering since i put stop leak in first and freon leaked out fairly quickly . My understanding is that the moisture in the freon circulates Stop leak through the system. And since this was a a large leak could it be possible that it only clogged the expansion valve? My Compressor clutch engages no noises. You are right about reputable shops they don't seem to want to do it. Know it gums up there Equipment but can you start with one part instead of just saying everything is clogged? Just don't think it got past expansion valve since it leaked out so fast and didn't circulate through system . Not know mechanic or certified A/C tech just been taken to the cleaners by mechanics who just replace parts at your cost and stumble upon what is wrong. Value your knowledge.

Thank You

rmoiseenko

WyrTwister on Thu May 30, 2013 5:45 AM

Quote
Originally posted by: rmoiseenko
Mk378 thanks for answering my post. Did use the Super Stop Leak wondering since i put stop leak in first and freon leaked out fairly quickly . My understanding is that the moisture in the freon circulates Stop leak through the system. And since this was a a large leak could it be possible that it only clogged the expansion valve? My Compressor clutch engages no noises. You are right about reputable shops they don't seem to want to do it. Know it gums up there Equipment but can you start with one part instead of just saying everything is clogged? Just don't think it got past expansion valve since it leaked out so fast and didn't circulate through system . Not know mechanic or certified A/C tech just been taken to the cleaners by mechanics who just replace parts at your cost and stumble upon what is wrong. Value your knowledge.



Thank You



rmoiseenko

Can you physically locate where the expansion valve is , on your system ?

I am a DIY'er & shade tree mechanic , on the weekends . I do something different for my day job .

Were it me , I would start by replacing the expansion valve , vacuuming it down and gassing it up .

God bless
Wyr

94RX-7 on Thu May 30, 2013 8:10 AM

Quote
Originally posted by: rmoiseenko
And since this was a a large leak could it be possible that it only clogged the expansion valve?


Only if it was a leak large enough to where you could see the cloud of refrigerant coming out of the system. More than likely you've got a nice coating of "super stop leak" all over the inside of the system.

"Super stop leak" hardens when it comes in contact with air. If you open the system, you're going to expose all the components to air and harden the stop leak. Just that simple.

iceman2555 on Thu May 30, 2013 6:36 PM

Unfortunately, this system is probably 'upwardly fornicated' beyond repair. Listening to an AZ 'former' mechanic' was mistake #1...adding the stop leak was mistake #2. Since there are so many variables in this repair, it would be best to return to a know value....the system should be thoroughly cleaned, lubricated properly...and charged properly. Since the system has been exposed to stop leak and the possibility that this material is throughout the system....unfortunately it will probably require a total system replacement. There is no method of flushing to completely remove stop leak from the system that I know. It may be possible...but then how would you know for sure the system was thoroughly clean and after replacing certain parts and re energizing the AC system have the system completely fail once more. Never was a fan of 'let's replace this part and see what happens'. This is a sure fire method to spend vast quantities of cash and have nothing to show for all the trouble.

Bite the bullet and start from a known clean system...as in new. Insure that the person completing the repair knows what the heck he is doing. It appears from the previous contacts leave a bit to be desired in the AC service business. This is going to be an expensive repair....a very expensive lesson about .taking a short cut to repair something that was completely out of scope for you attempt.
The components of your system are almost impossible to flush and clean from debris from a compressor failure...now add the stop leak to the equation...well...things go south in a hurry.
The compressor utilized on this compressor is either a rotary vane or CVC unit and both are very suspect to stop leak contamination. Not to mention the evap, TXV, and condenser.
It would be great to simply state that there was a easy....less expensive method to repair this vehicle....but unfortunately.....to accomplish the repair and be assured the system is totally clean and functional.....the system should be replaced.

Unfortunately, AZ and other retailers care little about the adverse effects that some of their product offerings can cause....just sell the damn products and let the buyer beware.....heck.. go back to AZ and tell them that their product and suggestions of their 'in house mechanic' resulted in a total system failure of your system and that you demand parts and labor to repair your system. Go after the chemical supplier also probably a company named....Interdynamics or Quest products (www.idqusa.com). You have nothing to loose.....raise a bit of hell....all they can say is NO.

Sorry you were given such bad advice and good luck with the repair.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

rmoiseenko on Fri May 31, 2013 1:54 AM

Thank You ! Really appreciate every ones input . Now understand what stop leak can do have no doubts that everything is clogged . After reading every ones post found Shop that does only Radiator and A/C repairs and have Certified A/C technicians that have proper equipment. Not sure how much this means but they were check rated for Super Guarantee Consumer rating program . With this program you register online when and where your taking you car and they will make sure it gets fixed right and will pay up to 500.00. Just joined this forum am very pleased how responsive knowledgeable every one is. Iceman2555 will let my feeling to AZ be known and will go to Corporate level and will be calling and sending letters to
ID Q also.

Thanks Again for every ones help !

rmoiseenko

HECAT on Fri May 31, 2013 7:19 AM

Quote
Originally posted by: rmoiseenko
will let my feeling to AZ be known and will go to Corporate level and will be calling and sending letters to ID Q also.

Don't waste your time. They could care less, as you are exactly the type of customer they have targeted to market this junk to.

I support everyones right to be a DIY. But if you do not have the tools, information, and understanding... well I think I will just stop there.




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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

bohica2xo on Fri May 31, 2013 9:44 AM

Wow, another TSR from stop leak.

Sorry to see that. The Saturn with the DCV14J compressor is not something to pour odd snot in to. Now you need a Total System Replacement.

Too bad it is against the law to use a baseball bat to ensure that Super Salesman needs a total knee replacement. Why on earth does someone work that hard to sell you a can of garbage like that? Counter Turds at VatoZone make like 8 bucks an hour. High pressure sales & lying to a customer used to be the realm of door to door vacuum salesmen & car dealers. Wow. Maybe he did that to feel important.

.

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"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

rmoiseenko on Fri May 31, 2013 11:54 AM

HECAT knew i didn't have the knowledge or equipment read on other forums stop leak is bad news. Sometimes you do things because financially you can't afford to have car fixed right and haven't had luck finding a good mechanic. Know it s going to cost me more. Thank You for the flushing information! Have one final question since stop leak hardens when exposed to air why was the shop that fixed leak able to put 2 3/4 cans of freon in system?

Thank You for every one's input.

rmoiseenko

mk378 on Fri May 31, 2013 12:21 PM

At that time, your compressor may have still been working to some degree, but as Iceman said, it seems to be toast now. The hardening is a progressive process.

Cussboy on Wed February 26, 2014 1:18 PM

Sad stop leak story - all too common....

Jag987 on Wed February 26, 2014 4:24 PM

I'm only posting becase someone else brought this thread back to life.

Quote
Originally posted by: rmoiseenko
........ And said there was a slim 20% chance moister would evaporate by driving car with A/C on......


Out of all the crazy things I have ever heard about AC systems, this one is possibly the craziest. After it evaporates, where does it go? It is a sealed, closed system. working properly, nothing goes in or out.


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I bought a can of 134a at w**-mart that had a stop leak, oil, and dye in it. It also had a hose and a gauge, so now I'm an AC pro!