Automotive Air Conditioning Information Forum (Archives)

WyrTwister on Fri April 12, 2013 1:52 PM

Year: 1991
Make: Chevy
Model: Caprice
Engine Size: 5.0L
Refrigerant Type: R12 presently
Country of Origin: United States

This car has been parked for 10 - 15 years . It belonged to my late father .

There was dirty , oily deposits around the compressor , around the clutch . My guess is the clutch went dry and the freon and oil leaked out .

Started working on it last weekend , Removed the clutch plate and pulley . Unbolted the compressor . Removed the seal Snap-Ring .

Looks like there is a round , flat spacer , next , with the seal behind it . I could not get it out . :-(

Spent all week researching this . Best info I came up with is the same pullet used to remove the ceramic ring of the older R4's ( MasterCool # 90486 ? ) , may be the tool needed to remove this spacer ?

Hope so , I ordered one a little while ago . But it will not get here in time for me to use it , this weekend . :-(

When I get the spacer out of the way , what is the best DIY way to remove the seal ? I figure I have a fair chance removing the O-Ring with a pick or " hook " ?

Once I get the seal changed and the compressor , I plan to drain the mineral out of it , replace the accumulator & convert it to R134a . There will be a little mineral oil left in the system .

Am I better off using POE ( ester ) oil or PAG ? If PAG , what viscosity .

My research indicated 6 - 8 ounces ? With 2 ounces of that in the compressor ?

Thanks
God bless
Wyr

Edited: Fri April 12, 2013 at 8:22 PM by WyrTwister

GM Tech on Fri April 12, 2013 2:25 PM

The round flat spacer is a rubber dust washer- about the size of a nickel or so- I just use a dental pick to get it out- then use your seal puller to remove single lip seal- yes, the same seal puller is used on both single, double, and ceramic shaft seals- yours should be a single lip OEM seal. The o-ring- yes use your pick...

Rubber dust washers were used primarily on R-4 truck applications and some car applications early to mid 90s.



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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

WyrTwister on Fri April 12, 2013 6:49 PM

Quote
Originally posted by: GM Tech
The round flat spacer is a rubber dust washer- about the size of a nickel or so- I just use a dental pick to get it out- then use your seal puller to remove single lip seal- yes, the same seal puller is used on both single, double, and ceramic shaft seals- yours should be a single lip OEM seal. The o-ring- yes use your pick...



Rubber dust washers were used primarily on R-4 truck applications and some car applications early to mid 90s.


It is not a rubber dust cap . None were present . It is metal . Aluminum , probably . I scratched the top of it , experimenting with a pick and a hook . If it is steel , it is very soft steel .

The new seal I purchased locally , does not look to be tall / thick enough to equal the height / thickness of , the thing / spacer ( I am attempting to describe ) + plus what I can tell about the old seal ( just guessing about that ? ) ?

In addition to that , I have seen YouTube videos of older GM compressors being retrofired from the older carbon / ceramic seal to the new lip seal . The combined height of the carbon / ceramic seal seems to be greater than the height of the lip seal I have on hand ?

So , the concept of a spacer made some sense .

As you can tell , this is my first attempt to replace the shaft seal on a compressor . I have been trying to research all this , off and on for about 2 weeks . I find it really confusing .

Thanks all , for your help . :-)

God bless
Wyr

PS When I finish the parts replacement , I will vacuum it down , before proceeding with the retro fit to R134a .



Edited: Fri April 12, 2013 at 6:51 PM by WyrTwister

WyrTwister on Fri April 12, 2013 8:13 PM

Anyone have any info on my question about the oil ?

Thanks ,
God bless
Wyr

GM Tech on Fri April 12, 2013 9:26 PM

I'd have to say, I've never heard of the spacer you referred to- and I worked in the factory that built R-4s- OEM -- maybe yours is a rebuilt model of some sort- a photo would help.


-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

WyrTwister on Sat April 13, 2013 4:46 AM

I am beginning to , maybe , understand a little more .

I have examined the new seal a little more . I have not removed it from the packaging . It is shrink wrapped to a piece of cardboard & I want to keep it clean until I am ready to use it .

I have also examined as many posts and photos , on this forum , as I can .

I think , what I am calling a spacer , is the top of the seal ? It has the " open space " that the 90486 tool fits into . The remainder of the top of the seal looks like a " ring " . I mistakenly called it a spacer .

No doubt , what so ever that I am a newbie . :-)

My thanks to you and all the others that have contributed to this forum . :-)

I really need the information and appreciate it .

God bless
wyr

WyrTwister on Fri April 19, 2013 8:54 PM

I have a 90846 tool on order and is scheduled to arrive next Monday .

As I have mentioned , from photos , it appears the lip seal is dimensionally the same as the ceramic ring ?

The carbon seal / cage is smaller than the recess in the " nose " of the compressor ? And of the ceramic ring ?

Does it lock onto the shaft , further down & spin with the shaft ?

I think I mentioned that the compressor only has 40,000 something thousand miles on it and leaked from the seal during prolonged storage .

None of this is worn out . I can not see a need to replace the orfice tube . Do you all ?

God bless
Wyr

TRB on Sat April 20, 2013 3:21 PM

You want to reuse a $1.50 part?

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WyrTwister on Sat April 20, 2013 7:07 PM

Quote
Originally posted by: TRB
You want to reuse a $1.50 part?

The orifice tube ? Do not even know where it is ?

Had a bad experience on a 2002 or 2004 Buick Century . Took 2 weeks of research to locate it and figure out how to get to it . GM had done a wonderful job of hiding it ! :-(

The Caprice I am working on did not shell out the compressor , like the Century did . There should not be the debris in the system , as there was in the Century .

As far as I know , the orifice tube is fine and it is not leaking . My thought is to let the sleeping dog lie ?

So , is there a reason to disturb the orifice tube ?

Thanks ,
Wyr
God bless

WyrTwister on Tue May 28, 2013 11:19 AM

Update ;

About 3 weeks ago , I finished replacing the compressor shaft seal on the GM R4 compressor . The MasterCool seal remover tool worked well .

Replaced the accumulator , added ester 100 oil w/ dye to the compressor and accumulator .

Vacuumed the system down & then added gas . Noticed a leak at one of the O-rings , where the lines bolt to the compressor . Stopped putting gas into the system when tightening the bolt did not stop the leak .

Pushed the car back , by hand , to retrieve tools that I had dropped . Also found one o-ring . I had evidently let one of them drop , while wrestling the lines . Thus the leak .

The following weekend , I re-did the o-rings & vacuumed it down , but did not put any gas into the system . This weekend , I vacuumed it down , to be safe & added 2 cans of freon . This was enough to make the compressor clutch engage continually , at idle , but not when I increased engine RPM's . Not enough to cool very much .

This car is a not driver , for right now . My thought is to let it set for 2 - 3 weeks & check it to see if the freon has leaked out . If it is OK , I will finish gassing it up . If not , I will pull the clutch & see if the new seal is leaking . And proceed from there .

Have not messed with the orifice valve .

God bless
Wyr

PS The schrader valve for the high side port seems to be larger than the one on the low side port ? The little tool I used to replace the schrader valve , on the low side port will not fit the schrader valve on the high side port ? What is going on with that .

Help , please ?

I would like to replace both schrader valves , on a car A/C system , when working on it , as SOP . It is a cheap form of preventive maintenance .