Automotive Air Conditioning Information Forum (Archives)
New (rebuilt) comp Ice 32 and condenser fan(s)
James89dx on 
Wed April 18, 2012 12:43 PM 
Year: 1989
Make: Honda
Model: Civic
Engine Size: 1.5 lt
Refrigerant Type: R12
This will be my 3rd attempt over the past several years at getting a properly functioning A/C system in my Civic. It's been a real frustrating and costly experience and I hope this to be my last time messing with it.
First time around 4 years ago I went R134a conversion with absolute horrific idle vent temps (~70 plus degrees), even with a hi-po electric fan right on the condenser. I then decided to revert to R12 but within a couple of weeks all the refrigerant had leaked out. I later on discovered the cheapo eBay compressor I put on was leaking. The performance of the R12 during this time was a bit better than the R134a but still nowhere near where I felt it should have been, particularly at idle (it would still creep up into the mid 60s which isn't enough to keep me from sweating in the summer).
Now, I'm doing the system again. Everything is brand new except the 4-5 hard lines in the system. My (new) rebuilt compressor came with all this brightly colored propaganda about being pre-filled with Ice 32 and actually specifically says NOT to drain it. Is this BS? The problem here is that I have no way of knowing how much is in there, so I have no way of knowing how much oil to add. I want to be very precise this time with proper oil/refrigerant amounts and would prefer to drain the new compressor dry and start "fresh" with proper amounts. Any reason I can't do this?
Also, the condenser is directly in front of the radiator. Currently, I have a slim electric puller fan behind the radiator on the driver side, and a slim electric pusher fan on the passenger side front of the condenser (this way they're not interfering with each other).
I've been contemplating adding a second pusher fan in front of the condenser, but this would place it in front of the said puller radiator fan. Would this be of any benefit at all or cancel each other out?
I'm really trying to get the idle vent temps down and figure two pushers on the condenser at idle would help. Thoughts?
TRB on Wed April 18, 2012 4:06 PM 
Four Seasons Rebuilt compressor?
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Contact: ACKits.com
James89dx on Wed April 18, 2012 10:14 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by: TRB
Four Seasons Rebuilt compressor?
Yes
TRB on Wed April 18, 2012 10:24 PM
Bummer. Don't be surprised when your copmpressor fails again. I'll never use a FS reman. New FS are fine but never a reman.
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Contact: ACKits.com
James89dx on Wed April 18, 2012 10:33 PM
Well what other option did/do I have? The only other TR70s I could find were ~$100 eBay "rebuilt" ones and I've already been through two of those. I tried to buy brand new from Honda but they no longer sell the complete unit. I would have had to try to piece it together from individual parts from Honda and not all of the parts are available any longer anyway.
TRB on Wed April 18, 2012 10:57 PM
There are new imports available if you use the right source.
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Contact: ACKits.com
James89dx on Wed April 18, 2012 11:09 PM
What exactly does "import" mean? Does that just mean Chinese knockoff? Or is that a genuine Sanden.
And if you don't mind sharing the source I would be really interested. Like I said, I want to do this 100% proper and for the last time. I searched for about two days trying to source a new Sanden and/or better rebuilt source than Four Seasons (though I've had no problems with their rebuilt steering racks, steering pumps, etc. over the years) to no avail. It really seems like everybody sells the same stuff and it's all a crapshoot. I've been through two eBay compressors, my buddy with a '90 Civic has been through two or three from AirPro (live a few miles from them), guys on the Honda forums have all had hits and misses depending on the source. Like I said, seems like a total crapshoot, unfortunately and really frustrating for people like me.
(would also still like to remind others not to forget about my original topic/questions haha)
Edited: Wed April 18, 2012 at 11:09 PM by James89dx
TRB on 
Wed April 18, 2012 11:51 PM
I would be the source. Import is a China knockoff. Frankly the China stuff is getting pretty good these days if you use the right source.
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Contact: ACKits.com
chris142 on Thu April 19, 2012 10:16 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by: TRB
I would be the source. Import is a China knockoff. Frankly the China stuff is getting pretty good these days if you use the right source.
x2. The New Chinese compressor is a much better choice than the FS rebuilt.
James89dx on Fri April 20, 2012 11:30 AM
Haha so nobody has input on my actual topic?
mk378 on Fri April 20, 2012 11:41 AM
Scroll compressors don't do much at idle, especially if they are at all worn(*). I suspect that idle performance may be compressor limited rather than condenser. Do you remember any pressure readings that you were getting? Also make absoultely sure the heater core is cutting off with the dial at full cold, Civics are really prone to that. I have a 1991 DX stock system running R-134a and performance is OK, though I don't experience really hot weather.
(*) and I doubt that any rebuilt gets new scrolls in it. Probably just a shaft seal and clutch set and clean up the outside.
Edited: Fri April 20, 2012 at 11:48 AM by mk378
TRB on Fri April 20, 2012 12:01 PM
Not a fan of ICE32. Nothing really wrong with it but it's not worth the cost. Sure you can drain the oil and put back the proper amount. If there is a warranty issue call the vendor and ask them if it's void removing Ice32. AS for the fan. Adding a pusher in front of a puller is not somehow I like doing. Seems to restrict air to a degree.
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Contact: ACKits.com
James89dx on Fri April 20, 2012 1:49 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by: mk378
Scroll compressors don't do much at idle, especially if they are at all worn(*). I suspect that idle performance may be compressor limited rather than condenser. Do you remember any pressure readings that you were getting? Also make absoultely sure the heater core is cutting off with the dial at full cold, Civics are really prone to that. I have a 1991 DX stock system running R-134a and performance is OK, though I don't experience really hot weather.
(*) and I doubt that any rebuilt gets new scrolls in it. Probably just a shaft seal and clutch set and clean up the outside.
No, I can't at all remember any readings. I was hoping to put the system all back together this weekend but I wasn't able to source an evaporator thermostat and pressure switch locally, and had to order from Honda which will take God knows how long. But at least this way literally everything will be new except the metal lines themselves.
I'd always read on the Honda forums that the stock EF (88-91 Civics) condensers are a bit undersized which contributes to poor idle performance. Though I would think that could be negated some by electric fans.
After doing some more research, my hope is my previous lackluster performance was partially due to several factors:
- I had a bit too much oil in the system (6 oz) making it undercharged - but would 1 oz undercharge be that noticeable?
- I never had a new condenser on my previous attempts. They were always stock units that I spent a ton of time flushing out with a flushing agent and my air compressor. I've read since that it's actually virtually impossible to clean out a used condenser. This time around I'll have a new condenser.
Since I'm starting from scratch essentially with a completely empty system shouldn't I be able to put in oil and R12 to factory specs and not worry so much about doing it based on pressure readings? Admittedly I'm not too knowledgeable about readings but I do have a gauge set.
Quote
Originally posted by: TRB
Not a fan of ICE32. Nothing really wrong with it but it's not worth the cost. Sure you can drain the oil and put back the proper amount. If there is a warranty issue call the vendor and ask them if it's void removing Ice32. AS for the fan. Adding a pusher in front of a puller is not somehow I like doing. Seems to restrict air to a degree.
Cool, thanks. I have a two year 24,000 mile on warranty on it. Stipulations of the warranty are that I must have proof of purchase of a new expansion valve, drier, and system flush. I have receipts for purchasing all of those. Nonetheless, it would suck for it to go out because even assuming they replace it free I'm still out several cans of R12 as well as having to do it all again.
The actual warranty doesn't say anything about needing to keep the Ice 32 in it. Would they be able to tell anyway?
I was hoping you'd say the pusher and puller together would be good to go. Thing is I wouldn't know what else to do to help the idle vent temps otherwise
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