Automotive Air Conditioning Information Forum (Archives)

Turbofiat on Sun February 12, 2012 8:27 AM

Year: 1987
Make: Yugo
Model: GV
Engine Size: 1500
Refrigerant Type: R134a
Country of Origin: United States

Since my custom A/C system was a success on my Fiat Spider I will soon be preparing to air condition my Yugo using the dealer installed Frigit evaporator unit but I will be using a smaller more modern condensor (so not to block the radiator) and relocate the dryer/reciever on the opposite side of the engine compartment where the carcoal canister was located.

The first thing is to make sure it's going to clear my turbocharger.

I had to do quite a bit of enginnering on the pulley system to make the system work. Here's some photos:

http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/turbofiat/Yugo/

This was not the way the car was originally designed. The car didn't even come with a 1500 Fiat engine much less a T25 turbo.

I moved the alternator to where the smog pump was originally located so I had room for an air filter. But looks as if I might have to move the alternator back to it's original location (bottom of the engine) and mount the A/C compressor where the alterantor is now.

I will be using a Sanden 505 compressor by the way.

Now here's the question. The crankshaft drives the waterpump and the waterpump drives the alternator with no issues. But can you drive an A/C compressor off a waterpump pulley? My concern is the A/C compressor will create too much drag and cause the belt to slip.

I've never seen an A/C compressor driven off a secondary pulley. That's not saying it can't be done. I've also never seen an alternator driven off a waterpump either but it works. There is not enough clearance to run a mulitple pulley groove pulley. That's why I had to create a split crankshaft pulley.

Here's some pics of the evaporator unit I will be using. It's a bit of a dumb design placing the vents at the floor since cold rise sinks but some say these systems worked OK. Also is a short video of me testing the unit. I had no wiring diagram for the evaporator unit and had to do some testing to figure out which wire was the input, output to the compressor and ground.

http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/turbofiat/Yugo%20air%20conditioning%20unit/

bohica2xo on Sun February 12, 2012 7:23 PM

There are all sorts of examples of secondary drives for light loads like smog pumps & alternators scattered across the pre-serpentine car industry.

I can't think of a single example of a load like a compressor, P/S pump or large fan driven that way however - just too much load to stack on a single vee belt.

I looked through the album pics, but could not find any showing a belt / compressor / crankshaft pulley. Dog looks good, but there is a pile of something behind her...

so are you saying there is only one belt groove on the Yugo crankshaft pulley? If that is the case, drive the compressor & water pump with one belt, and drive the alternator from the OEM groove on the waterpump - or the second groove on the compressor.

Or, drive only the compressor from the crank groove. Drive the waterpump from the secondary compressor groove to the secondary waterpump groove with a second belt, and drive the alternator with the same belt - using the alternator as the tensioner for the second belt.

Chances are the compressor clutch idler bearing is the biggest (and highest quality) bearing in the whole path. Driving it from the crank & using it to re-distribute power makes the most sense.

B.



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"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

NickD on Mon February 13, 2012 6:26 AM

With a single belt serpentine belt drive system, even the tiniest plastic sheave idler pulley sees the same load as the compressor. Every sheave sees that 125 pound load, but hey you only have one belt to change, and that load increases if you crank your steering wheel from the PS pump or switch on the AC. So if stranded in the middle of nowhere, don't get depressed, smile instead, you only have one belt to change.

With single drive belts and plastic and aluminum engines to go along with it, if it breaks on the interstate, can make it to the next exit 18 miles up the road to get it repaired. But not only told the belt has to be replaced, but also the entire engine as well.

Putting lots of money into a Yugo, now that makes good sense, collectors love stuff like stamps with errors on it or POS vehicles.

Turbofiat on Mon February 13, 2012 11:50 AM

I have no idea what you guys are talking about. All I wanted to know was if an AC compressor would cause too much drag on a V-belt if ran off a secondary pulley like a water pump. They make dual groove waterpump pulleys for small block Fords. It was my understanding the purpose of these was to run an A/C compressor rather than swapping out crankshaft pulleys. My 68 Ford has a single groove crankshaft pulley and I'll be air conditioning this car eventually. So why not use that car as an example instead.

As far as my Yugo is concerned. So what the hell are you guys driving?

I didn't know I was going to get critisized for building a low budget hot rod. What about all these people paying out the nose for so called "collector" cars. A guy I work with paid 30 grand for a 72 Chevelle. I don't see that. I'm not a GM man anyway. I've always prefered Fords when it comes to American cars.

I wouldn't pay 30 grand for my '08 Mustang GT if it were new. I can have just as much fun out of my Yugo as he can and built my car for $2500. I got more money in My 68 Fairlane than my Yugo and it's still not fully restored.

I see these 57 Chevy projects in the paper all the time. "Got $50K invested will sacrifice for $15K....






Edited: Mon February 13, 2012 at 12:01 PM by Turbofiat

NickD on Mon February 13, 2012 2:35 PM

Ignore my collector call comments. Bohica is trying to find examples of water pump driven AC's, I went with a serpentine single belt drive for an example. But the fact remains, can your water pump handle the additional stress of driving an AC. Good question, and perhaps should be posed to the manufacturer of that water pump. We don't even know what kind it is.

Wear increases exponentially with load and speed with the remaining question of how long will it last. Save and sure route would be to drive it off the crankshaft pulley, even if you have to weld a sheave to it. Other factor is the step up ratio, most AC compressors run at a 1:1 ratio, water pumps run much higher drastically increases the torque load. then what kind of AC compressor? Vane types can run at higher RPM than a piston type.

Maybe ice-n-tropics will step in, gets around more on this kind of stuff. I was just taking a break from my income taxes, should have soaked my head in a bucket of ice water instead.

ice-n-tropics on Mon February 13, 2012 5:54 PM

Fiat/Yugo Guy,
Holt Hickman, MACS Pioneer, still has a Yugo in his museum of vehicles that his company's Ft. Worth Tire and battery/Lone Star Mfg./Frigette/SCS Frigette supplied the OEM A/C. I remember a console type evaporator.
Yugo A/C needs a low power requirment compressor like a Sanden SD7B10 with low torque pulsations and low average power, but limited cooling. I would think that the engineers did not over engineer the WP to accomodate compressor loads.
Heck, when I was 19, I ran the belt for a 2 banger shaker compressor across the V8 1958 Ford WP and took off from Dallas to LA. After driving straight through from DAL to LA and flip flop 180 degrees from Bakersville toward Phoenix and the WP failed in the desert. Had to drive to Dal w/o A/C.... bummer.
hotrodac

-------------------------
Isentropic Efficiency=Ratio of Theoretical Compression Energy/Actual Energy.
AMAZON.com: How To Air Condition Your Hot Rod

Edited: Tue February 14, 2012 at 4:34 AM by ice-n-tropics

ice-n-tropics on Tue February 14, 2012 4:32 AM

-------------------------
Isentropic Efficiency=Ratio of Theoretical Compression Energy/Actual Energy.
AMAZON.com: How To Air Condition Your Hot Rod

Turbofiat on Wed February 15, 2012 4:48 AM

Quote
Originally posted by: ice-n-tropics
Fiat/Yugo Guy,

Holt Hickman, MACS Pioneer, still has a Yugo in his museum of vehicles that his company's Ft. Worth Tire and battery/Lone Star Mfg./Frigette/SCS Frigette supplied the OEM A/C. I remember a console type evaporator.

Yugo A/C needs a low power requirment compressor like a Sanden SD7B10 with low torque pulsations and low average power, but limited cooling. I would think that the engineers did not over engineer the WP to accomodate compressor loads.

Heck, when I was 19, I ran the belt for a 2 banger shaker compressor across the V8 1958 Ford WP and took off from Dallas to LA. After driving straight through from DAL to LA and flip flop 180 degrees from Bakersville toward Phoenix and the WP failed in the desert. Had to drive to Dal w/o A/C.... bummer.

hotrodac

The compressor that came with my parts car uses a Sanden 505 (SD505).

I looked up this SD7B10 your talking about and notice the ports are on top of the compressor instead of the head.

I'm not sure how it compares as far as length and mounts. I was planning on using the original bracket.

Any chance this compressor could be mounted with the ports facing down? I mean can you rotate the compressor in any postion? That would help a lot.




Edited: Wed February 15, 2012 at 4:49 AM by Turbofiat