Basic Newbie Equipment Question

NightOwl on Sun August 01, 2010 2:48 PM

Hi:

I have a basic Equipment question. I'm getting my ducks in a row to vacuum and charge my 134a system. I have the gauges. I have a robinair 15500 Vacuum pump. I have the 134a.

What I've found is that the yellow Vacuum Charge hose from the manifold does not fit the pump fittings. I suspect that I need an adapter and a valve here.

I've also found that the can tap that came with the 134a does not fit the "charge" (Center yellow valved) port of the manifold. I suspect I need a dedicated can tap and hose here.

Am I correct?

Sincerely, NightOwl

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Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is being afraid and doing your duty anyway.

70monte on Sun August 01, 2010 5:28 PM

I have a Robinair #15600 Cooltech 6cfm two stage vacuum pump. I had to have a Robinair #15495 adapter to replace the original one on this pump because I ran into the same thing.

I looked your pump up and the above mentioned adapter and they supposedly have the same outlets so if this is the case, I don't know why your charging hose will not hook up.

If you have a R134a can tap and your gauge hoses are for 134a, I don't know why it wouldn't work. I have a Robinair side can tap that came with my gauge set and it works fine.

Are you sure your charging hose is for R134a? Good luck.

Wayne

NightOwl on Tue August 03, 2010 2:37 PM

Thanks Monte:

I got the adapters an adapter from the local autoparts store along with the proper can tap.

After running this errand I parked it for about 10 minute (long enough to assemble the hoses and fittings) and plugged in. Turns out the system is pressurized. On plug in the Low side was off the scale and the high side was at like 110. I thought: oops how did I managed to switch the hoses? I rechecked everything, (The system does have quick connects and I did use them) So, I decided the hoses were correct.

I started the engine and set the a/c on max cool, max fan then went back to crack the tap valves at arms length. Low side now fluctuates at low normal range 25-50 and High side seems to be low normal also 150-225, The ambient 99 in the shade right now.

I'm thinking the high initial static on the low side is either engine heat and reasonably tight system or possibly a restriction at the accumulator but since the system seems to cycle correctly when running, I'm leaning toward the first.

All electrics are running properly as far as I can see and hear. The system does not have climate control. Compressor is cycling at app 7 to 10 seconds on and off. Low side line is warm to the touch. High side line is hotter but touchable.

My guesstamit. "Low" refrigerant. So I'll use a small 4oz. 134a with dye charge in a can and then add then 134a to bring the low side to at least the 29 pound minimum. With the ambient this high, I'm thinking of puting it about 35 to 40.

Thoughts anyone?

Sincerely, NightOwl

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Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is being afraid and doing your duty anyway.

Edited: Tue August 03, 2010 at 2:38 PM by NightOwl

bohica2xo on Tue August 03, 2010 2:48 PM

Thoughts?

I think you need to post:

Vehicle make / model / year

Ambient temperature

Vehicle History

Reason for servicing the system

Otherwise, we have no idea what those pressures mean.

B.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

NightOwl on Tue August 03, 2010 3:11 PM

Sure thing, I thought I had.

2000
Ford Contour V6 DOHC not the svs.

Again, Ambient while testing was 99

Specs according to alldata should 29 to 326. Its running about 25 to 50 & 150-225

Specs supposedly call for 26oz load (according to parts guy)

Sincerely, NightOwl

P.S.

vehicle history, just went over 100k, Owned for two years a/c gradually became less "efficient" (yes I do my own maintenance) Nothing recent done to the front end other than routine Oil and filters

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Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is being afraid and doing your duty anyway.

Edited: Tue August 03, 2010 at 3:19 PM by NightOwl

TRB on Tue August 03, 2010 3:16 PM

If you need equipment these options are very attractive in my opinion.

Mastercool DIY kits by AMA.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Edited: Tue August 03, 2010 at 3:16 PM by TRB

NightOwl on Tue August 03, 2010 3:28 PM

Thanks for the offer TRB:

I already have all of the starter goodies

I have an almost new robinair spx 15500
A decent LED UV light
I just got the right can Tap
and I was cheap on the Manifold and went with Harbour Freight.

If. I have to I'll do another pawn shop crawl and get a recovery unit.

Having said all that. I do have your site book marked. Some things have to bought new.

Sincerely, NightOwl

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Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is being afraid and doing your duty anyway.

bohica2xo on Tue August 03, 2010 3:32 PM

With the cabin fan on the highest speed, and both doors open you should not see cycling - especially at idle.

You look to be undercharged, and at 100k in 10 years I am not surprised.

You would be surprised how many times a thread starts out with a "simple" situation, and a page later we find a collision repair / three junkyard compressors/ used condensor/ and a "top up" every 3 months... Did not mean to sound rude.

Topping up a system is always iffy. Most here will recommend a recover & charge by weight. You can add some refrigerant, and that is better than running it low - but you will never know where you are at with the charge level.

The other issues is how much lubricant snuck out with the refrigerant over 10 years? Probably not a lot, but some. Do you have any oily spots on the system?

I would recover the system, add back an ounce of oil with a full dose of dye & charge to spec. Then keep an eye on it for leaks, check it in a couple of months with a blacklight.

I would also do a through cleaning of the condensor air path, and the rest of the front mounted heat exchangers as well.

B.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

NightOwl on Tue August 03, 2010 3:56 PM

No biggy da, Bohica

I know the saying about the most dangerous thing in the world being an operator with a screw driver so I understand where you're coming from.

I'm the type who likes to know where to hit before he gets the hammer out.

Finances aren't up to the recovery machine yet. So I'm leaning toward the dye and top up and hope I don't mess it up or have to have a shop recover it for me. I will get one later though because the house is overdue and with the change to puron that's another one I'll have to do myself (I sure don't have 5k just sitting around). I'll have to get the 906 and 8 certs first though. It'll be worth the effort. Hopefully no one put a "death kit" in this thing it before I got it.

Everything looks like good clean road grime underneath. And the 18 oz 134a cans that I have also have two ounces of oil in each one. The dye can is just 134a and dye.

Sincerely, NightOwl

-------------------------
Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is being afraid and doing your duty anyway.

Edited: Tue August 03, 2010 at 3:57 PM by NightOwl

bohica2xo on Tue August 03, 2010 9:12 PM

Too new for a "death kit", it was already 134a.

They make small cans of oil with a couple of ounces of oil, and a bit of 134a to push it into the system. You could use part of one easily enough.

The refrigerant with dye only is fine to use. Just add refrigerant slowly. A little "gulp", and let the system stabilize. You may only be 4 ounces low. too much is just as bad as not enough...

B.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

NightOwl on Wed August 04, 2010 12:33 PM

Thanks Bohica:

I'll do one of the oil charge cans and then switch to the dye can.

I thought about getting some originally but decided not to because it was included in what I had. But with the system pressurized, its a different critter especially if its only off by a few oz.

Its Already 95 ambient so I better to the store and get on it.

Sincerely, NightOwl

-------------------------
Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is being afraid and doing your duty anyway.

bohica2xo on Wed August 04, 2010 1:40 PM

Good plan. It is catch 22 with maintaining a pressurized system.

Personally I would rather give up 10% of my cooling capacity to a little extra oil - than give up a compressor to oil starvation.

I can mitigate that loss by keeping the condensor spotless.

I have been in your shoes. Not enough cash to go at it whole hog, but too smart to ignore it. Obviously a full teardown, flush, fresh oil charge & weighed in refrigerant charge would be better. Adding one or two ounces of oil, and some refrigerant is a better choice than just running it & getting used to the crappy performance.

B.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

NightOwl on Wed August 04, 2010 5:45 PM

Well here are the results:

110 in the shade measured at the vehicle today.

Oil is in. The first dye can was bad (no pressure at all) Bought another and its in:

The compressor now runs constant at idle 1250

pressures now run 35 on the low side and 300 on the high side

Temp on the central vent now runs at 58 at idle and 48 while driving. A look with the UV around the engine compartment doesn't show anything yet. So now its wait and we'll see.

I sure appreciate the advice: The threads on this site helped me avoid a few really deep holes.

Sincerely, NightOwl

-------------------------
Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is being afraid and doing your duty anyway.

fasto on Thu August 05, 2010 12:25 PM

Hi NightOwl, based on my experiences with Contour, the most probably spots for leaks would be:
(1) the accumulator, which is located under the battery and wrapped with open cell foam. This combo results in rust pinholes.
(2) the suction line that runs through the driver's side wheel well.
**Note this was on an SVT Contour, though I think all the V6 Contours used the same system.

NightOwl on Sat June 11, 2011 8:08 PM

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Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is being afraid and doing your duty anyway.

NightOwl on Sat June 11, 2011 8:24 PM

Well Folks its been almost a year since I last posted on this thread. The recharge went fine and the system even at this stage continues to function within the specs that I posted.

Last week I noticed a little pulley noise from under the hood and when I checked it I found metal flakes on the serpentine belt. When I pulled the belt to check everything it turns out I've essentially lost the bearings on the compressor clutch. It's a blessing it didn't lock up an break the belt. So now a new Murray compressor and condenser are sitting in my "den" awaiting installation. I had the system recovered today in prep for the new install. I do have a few questions though.

1. Should I replace the O rings that I run into? I've had bad luck getting new ones in other applications to seat so I'm a bit leery of this.

2. Should I place oil directly into the condenser and or compressor when I put the new ones in or try and charge from the access ports after assembly.

3. Should I do an engine off partial charge of the high pressure side before I attempt start up. This would be only with the cans as I don't have a recover / charge machine at present. I do have a vacuum pump.

What other advice would you offer about pitfalls.

Sincerely, NightOwl

-------------------------
Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is being afraid and doing your duty anyway.

70monte on Sat June 11, 2011 11:44 PM

Some people might question the quality of the Murray compressor. Is it new or reman?

I would replace any o-rings or sealing washers on any connections you take apart. I use Nylog on all my O-rings and connection threads to help seal the system.

Make sure there is no oil already in the new compressor and I would put oil in the components rather than doing it while charging. You need to put oil in the compressor anyway and turn it enough times to get the oil circulated in the compressor.

I don't see any need to charge through the high side with the car off. Just do it through the low side like normal.

you are not going to know how much oil is left in your system so you are going to be guessing on the correct amount to add in. Your accumulator is going to have oil in it as well as your evap. Good luck.

Wayne

NightOwl on Sun June 12, 2011 5:59 PM

Hi Wayne:

Thanks for the reply.

I'm going to replace the accumulator too just in case. Besides if I don't it voids the compressor warranty. The compressor is supposed to be brand spanking new and says so on the box so we'll see on the quality. The Vehicle has 118,000 on the compressor I'm taking out and I'll store it just in case this one does a one year one month failure. I can always take the clutch off it and put it on the old one to buy me some time.

In any event, I'm dead in the water for today as I thought I had the proper disconnects for it but I don't. I want to get some that will last longer than one use, so I'll see my parts guy in the morning. ALLdata has a table as to how much to add for each component on the Oil. But it says to measure the compressor and of course, the compressor documentation says to refer to the OEM manual (typical). Haynes says to refer to the OEM manual as well. We should all of course, remember that their manual is based on a TOTAL tear down of the system ;-) I'll talk to the dealer tomorrow and see if they have anything to say on the subject and If all else fails, I guess I'll have to measure what's in the old one and "assume" it will apply to the new one.

Sincerely, NightOwl

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Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is being afraid and doing your duty anyway.

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