Automotive Air Conditioning Information Forum (Archives)
Need some help, compressor question. Pages: 12
70monte on 
Mon July 26, 2010 9:04 PM 
Year: 1999
Make: Chevrolet
Model: Suburban
Engine Size: 5.7L
Refrigerant Type: r134a
Country of Origin: United States
Today I received my parts from ACKITS. I originally ordered the Valeo/Seltec compressor for the above vehicle but they didn't have it in stock so I agreed to the Sanden replacement compressor. Since they also didn't have the sealing washers in stock, the guy that took my order said that the compressor came with the sealing washers and if it didn't, he would put a couple of theirs in the package. Well, there are no sealing washers in the package and I don't know what size thickness I need. I was told this compressor takes thicker washers than the factory compressor.
Does anyone know if this is true and if not, how do I need to measure to figure out what the correct ones are? The other issue is that the last time I tried to buy sealing washers for my 92 cavalier, no one had any and I had to have the company that I bought the compressor from send me some which held up my repair job for almost a week. It seems that for some reason, the local parts stores don't carry these things. Where else do you buy these things from?
I have already had a bad day and this doesn't help any. Thanks to anyone who can help. I need to get this thing done this week.
Wayne
70monte on Mon July 26, 2010 9:28 PM
After reading the instructions that came with the Sanden I have some more questions.
1. This compressor comes with oil already in it(4.5) ounces. It says to measure the amount that came out of the old compressor to determine how much to drain out of the new compressor. I could not get any oil to drain out of the old compressor so do I leave all 4.5 ounces in or put the 2 ounces in it that was suggested to me from another forum member. I don't know anything about this compressor so I don't know how much oil it needs on startup so it doesn't burn up.
I was told to only put a total of 5 ounces total in the system(2oz in compressor and 3oz in accumulator) to replace the oil since I'm only replacing the compressor and accumulator.
2. It mentions something about maybe needing a longer serpentine belt. Does anyone know if a longer belt is needed using this compressor with the 5.7L engine? I hope not because the truck already has a newer belt on it and the owner willl not be happy about having to spend another $40 on a new belt.
I know this is supposed to be a good compressor but I don't like having to use spacers and possibly a longer belt or non stock size washers to make it work. Sorry if I sound pissy but its not been a good day. Thanks for any help.
Wayne
GM Tech on Mon July 26, 2010 10:09 PM
Thats why I always rebuild and reseal the OEM to avoid all your hassles....I could have done that job for you for less than half probably of what you have in it-- and had it done in 45 minutes......time indeed is money.......
-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......
70monte on Mon July 26, 2010 10:38 PM
Unfortunately I don't have the tools or the expertise to repair the compressors themselves and I'm sure you could do it cheaper. I'm only a DIY'er at this. If I would have known that this was not a direct replacement like the Seltec compressor is, I would not have bought it and just went with a new HT6 compressor from a local source even if it isn't as good of quality.
So, do you know anything about this compressor in this application? Thanks.
Wayne
GM Tech on Mon July 26, 2010 10:50 PM
I am a DIY- just studied up on the product- then people started coming to me- don't know the product you are using- I would call the provider and let them walk you through the install- it is designed for your application- so there should be adequate help by way of instructins or over the phone technical assist.
-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......
TRB on 
Mon July 26, 2010 11:12 PM 
Sorry to hear the guys did not place the washers in as stated. I'll have a chat with them in the morning. I've had a back order on the sealing washer kits for a month now. I'll see what can be done to get you a kit if still needed. There are just a few sizes and should need to make a flat surface off the manifold hose set.
Changing seals and case seals is not that hard. But I've had as many claim success as wish they had not tried after attempting. Also gets costly when you don't have the equipment to reclaim if a seal does not hold.
-------------------------
Contact: ACKits.com
Edited: Mon July 26, 2010 at 11:14 PM by TRB
70monte on Mon July 26, 2010 11:46 PM
GM Tech,
I have studied up on this subject quite a bit myself but not in the area of taking apart compressors. I have no doubt that I could do it since I'm pretty mechanically inclined and have been working on vehicles since I was 18 and I'm in my 40's now but I don't do this type of work enough to justify the cost of the tools and there is still the fact of whether or not the rest of the compressor is still good. Its just easier in most cases to replace the compressor. I also don't have the equipment to reclaim if I screw up the compressor reseal. I do appreciate the help you have given me over the years I've been on this forum.
TRB,
The directions for the compressor gave me an AC-Delco part# for what washers were needed and I did some internet searching until I found the size specs for the washers so the original washers are the size I need. I got lucky and found a bag in my parts that had two of the size I needed so I think I'm good. The S & D ports on the Sanden are a little deeper than the original compressor but the original size washers are supposed to be correct so we will see.
The thing I'm most concerned about is the possibility of having to use a longer belt which I don't want to do for the reasons I mentioned before. I have not gotten a change to put the new compressor in the original mount to see if I'm going to have clearance issues and have to use the spacers provided which in turn will probably require a new belt.
This is why I'm asking for someone to respond that has used this compressor on this engine in a 96-99 Sub or truck and can tell me if they had any issues with belt size.
Don't be too hard on your guys as I'm sure they were busy. I'm just glad I ended up having what I needed. Thanks for the responses.
Wayne
TRB on Tue July 27, 2010 12:17 AM
If you use the spacers you should not have to use a different belt. If the correct model was sent they are designed as direct replacements.
-------------------------
Contact: ACKits.com
70monte on Tue July 27, 2010 6:21 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by: TRB
If you use the spacers you should not have to use a different belt. If the correct model was sent they are designed as direct replacements.
OK, thanks. I will see what happens. Take care.
Wayne
Cookiebaggs on Tue July 27, 2010 9:32 AM
I have a 97 Tahoe and I put in the Sanden compressor two years ago. I used the washers that came with the compressor and had no problems with the belt size.
70monte on Tue July 27, 2010 1:53 PM
Thank you, that is the information I needed.
Wayne
ice-n-tropics on Tue July 27, 2010 2:49 PM
From several HT-6 replacements with Sanden:
1) Main problem with HT6 belly leakers is body twist due to uneven contact between the comp and the mounting bracket. When mounting a HT-6 shim the mounting at one or more of the 4 mounting contact points, so that the compressor body does not twist. Otherwise, over time the gasket between the compressor cases will spring a leak.
2) Sanden mounts higher (with spacers) in order for the Sanden black cast steel front housing to clear the aluminum OEM compressor mounting bracket cradle. Also, the clutch diameter is larger so that the Sanden will not rev higher that the allowable spec at red-line. Sanden is good for 7,000 rpm max. but HT-6 is good for more. This (spacers and big clutch) uses a little more of the belt adjustment. If a new unstreached belt is used, it may be necessary to install the belt on the Sanden clutch while tillting the compressor down in front and then bolt down the rear of the compressor. The Sanden compressor is more forgiving of uneven compressor mounting, therefore, final shimming is not necessary.
3) Sanden figures that the system will not be flushed, therefore, just replace the oil that is removed with the HT-6. If the system is flushed the total oil added is equal to the OEM spec minus the oil contained in the new Sanden replacement compressor (4.5 oz.). If the accumulator (Acc) is removed it must be considered for oil removal. For a system that was fully charged before service the Acc will contain 1 to 2 oz of oil. If the system was very low charge before service, the Acc will contain 4 oz or more oil. This is because refrigerant washes the oil out of the desiccant bag.
4) The Sanden will come close to the border line HT-6 performance, but you can't hang meat because it is less displacement and turns slower. The Burb needs a Seltec 210 or A-6.
5) Diesel Application only: The Sanden can install on the diesel if the spacers are doubled or the cast iron bracket is notched to clear the Sanden front housing. Check the hood clearance with puddy on top of the compressor hose fitting before slamming the hood and torqing the engine. May need to trim some hood insulation.
Hope this helps,
hotrodac
-------------------------
Isentropic Efficiency=Ratio of Theoretical Compression Energy/Actual Energy.
AMAZON.com: How To Air Condition Your Hot Rod
Edited: Tue July 27, 2010 at 2:51 PM by ice-n-tropics
GM Tech on Tue July 27, 2010 5:21 PM
The twisting "wive's tale" is all wrong-- it is actually aluminum corrosio that causes the leaks- there are no gaskets- they use o-rings. The proof is that all HD-6 series leak in this same manner even when they are not mouned by 4 legs-- the low mount ear mount styles leak just the same and they can't be "twisted" Botoom line is that corrosion crawls in the sealing surface- painted pumps don't have this problem. H-6 and V-5 belly leakers started happening after the paint process was discontinued..Give it ten years and the belly leaks occur due to corrosion....older painted v-5 don't leak- older painted H-6 don't leak. Hasn't this been your experience?
-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......
iceman2555 on Tue July 27, 2010 6:06 PM
The major cause of HT6 case leaks, esp with aftermarket installs is case distortion. This is evident from many of the returned units at have evidence of excessive torque on mounting surfaces. Also, back in the day...way back when....a major well known reman'er of these units was actually purchasing NEW gut packs (from GM) and installing reman'd clutches, front and rear heads. Or course, these were painted...after all.....most reman's are painted...however, the same issues were encountered.....they leaked in the gut pack.
It is possible that corrosion is a contributor to this problem, however, we see these units arriving with no corrosion at all on the cases....and yet they are being returned for case leakage.
It is also a bit amazing, that many of these compressors that are returned for leakage pass both failure evaluation leak test. Actual test are positive crankcase pressures, first test is a immersion type test and the other is a negative atmosphere/positive crankcase pressure test.
Unfortunately many compressors are installed with the use of air rachets. I can think of no compressor that requires the torque generated by these tools to properly mount the compressor. A simple rachet and socket is all that is necessary. Would be great to use the correct tool....a torque wrench to insure proper installation....but then....one never has time to do the job correctly.....but always has time to do it once more......and in some instances....once more...or is that twice more....not sure...get so confused these days.
Hey, ya'll have fun out there.....and ain't this heat wonderful.....think of all the compressors being sold....mmmmmmmmmmmmm.....love it !!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson
ice-n-tropics on Tue July 27, 2010 6:22 PM
Dayton Tech
Thanks for the info. You have disassembled more H-6 series than anyone and know best. 45 min- is darn good money.
I was going on the info from Delco a few years ago about shimming the mounting. Delco was distributing the Sanden replacement when the HT6 went out of production.
I knew it was a o-ring but miswrote gasket instead of seal.
Thanks,
hotrodac
-------------------------
Isentropic Efficiency=Ratio of Theoretical Compression Energy/Actual Energy.
AMAZON.com: How To Air Condition Your Hot Rod
70monte on Tue July 27, 2010 11:01 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by: ice-n-tropics
From several HT-6 replacements with Sanden:
1) Main problem with HT6 belly leakers is body twist due to uneven contact between the comp and the mounting bracket. When mounting a HT-6 shim the mounting at one or more of the 4 mounting contact points, so that the compressor body does not twist. Otherwise, over time the gasket between the compressor cases will spring a leak.
2) Sanden mounts higher (with spacers) in order for the Sanden black cast steel front housing to clear the aluminum OEM compressor mounting bracket cradle. Also, the clutch diameter is larger so that the Sanden will not rev higher that the allowable spec at red-line. Sanden is good for 7,000 rpm max. but HT-6 is good for more. This (spacers and big clutch) uses a little more of the belt adjustment. If a new unstreached belt is used, it may be necessary to install the belt on the Sanden clutch while tillting the compressor down in front and then bolt down the rear of the compressor. The Sanden compressor is more forgiving of uneven compressor mounting, therefore, final shimming is not necessary.
3) Sanden figures that the system will not be flushed, therefore, just replace the oil that is removed with the HT-6. If the system is flushed the total oil added is equal to the OEM spec minus the oil contained in the new Sanden replacement compressor (4.5 oz.). If the accumulator (Acc) is removed it must be considered for oil removal. For a system that was fully charged before service the Acc will contain 1 to 2 oz of oil. If the system was very low charge before service, the Acc will contain 4 oz or more oil. This is because refrigerant washes the oil out of the desiccant bag.
4) The Sanden will come close to the border line HT-6 performance, but you can't hang meat because it is less displacement and turns slower. The Burb needs a Seltec 210 or A-6.
5) Diesel Application only: The Sanden can install on the diesel if the spacers are doubled or the cast iron bracket is notched to clear the Sanden front housing. Check the hood clearance with puddy on top of the compressor hose fitting before slamming the hood and torqing the engine. May need to trim some hood insulation.
Hope this helps,
hotrodac
Like I wrote above, I could not get any oil to come out of the compressor or accumulator. The OT was clean with no debris. The oil that was in the lines that I pulled apart was clean so I didn't flush the system. The system had a very low charge before I took everything apart but I still was not able to get any oil to come out of the accumulator.
So with that information, How much oil should I put back in the system? I was told by one person to put 8oz in the system and another one told me 5oz. total system amount is 11oz.
I'm not happy to hear that the Sanden will not be as good at cooling as the original compressor. That is not going to make the owner happy. I wanted the Seltec compressor but it was out of stock. Thanks for your suggestions.
The belt was pretty tight with the original compressor and not easy to get off even with the tensioner pulled all the way loose. I doubt the belt will go on with the Sanden compressor at all. This will not make me happy if that happens. I will see what happens if I ever get a chance to work on this thing again.
Wayne
Edited: Tue July 27, 2010 at 11:07 PM by 70monte
70monte on Tue July 27, 2010 11:24 PM
Do you guys suggest that I send this back and get something else? Thanks.
Wayne
TRB on Wed July 28, 2010 12:10 AM
The Seltec & the Sanden perform very similar you are not losing out performance using the Sanden.
As for the A6 or Seltec 210 comment. Are you willing to completely fab new compressor mounts in a space that is not available for you current application? New hose sets would also be needed! Correct me if I'm wrong here. But I believe the comment was made for the need of a larger compressor in general! Like they used to use on the Suburban. Not so much that you can drop in a A6 or Seltec 210.
But if you are not happy with the Sanden. As long as it is in new condition send it back for a refund.
-------------------------
Contact: ACKits.com
70monte on Wed July 28, 2010 6:16 AM
If the Sanden will perform like the Seltec does than that will be okay as the two Seltecs I have in two chevy trucks seem to work as good as the orginal ones did.
I guess I'm just going to leave the oil in the compressor and add a couple of ounces to the accumulater and call it good and hope that I'm close on the oil amount.
I guess I'm just going to have to hope that the original belt fits and if not, eat the cost of a new belt because there is no way that I can justify to the owner about buying a belt to replace an already good belt.
The other worry on the belt is that the owner is an older guy who doesn't keep maintainence records and if I put a non stock belt on this vehicle and he ever needs to replace it, he will have no clue on what to get unless the belt numbers happen to still be visable which in a lot of cases they aren't.
I guess I'm just going to keep this compressor because sending it back will take too much time and I've already had this thing for over a week now and need to get it gone.
Thanks for all of the help.
Wayne
PS. How long does it take for you guys to get the Seltec when it is out of stock? The last time I ordered this compressor from you, it was out of stock but you had it shipped from the company in TX. This time that option was not offered to me.
Cussboy on Wed July 28, 2010 9:40 AM
If you end up using a different serpentine belt, either write down the part number in the guy's owner's manual, or better yet, buy a spare and keep it with the Sub's jack. I always keep a spare (old belt) around in mine, and a 5/8 socket wrench...that ensures that I'll never need it !!!!
ice-n-tropics on Wed July 28, 2010 11:07 AM
Although I have no tests of Seltec on a Burb, generally the Sanden = Seltec. The Sanden holds more oil in the crankcase which takes it out of circulation and slightly improves heat exchanger performance. A normal customer would not be able to distinguish between HT-6 and Sanden or Seltec.
The A-6/210 comment was not intended as normal service advice, just a criticism of Harrison/GM Light Truck A/C design capability. I like goose-bumps like the A-6 did.
Acc can hold considerable oil which will not drain out. I weighed 8 oz of oil in a low refrigerant charge Peterbuilt oversized Acc.
Every different brand or production run of a belt is slightly different so good luck. The option to a belt change (if necessary) could be to notch the mounting bracket cradle to clear the Sanden front housing and use thinner than the supplied 1/4" spacers while tilting the compressor with the belt installed before installing/tightening the bolts.
hotrodac
-------------------------
Isentropic Efficiency=Ratio of Theoretical Compression Energy/Actual Energy.
AMAZON.com: How To Air Condition Your Hot Rod
TRB on Wed July 28, 2010 1:01 PM
I can have a Seltec 10000282 shipped out today if needed. I honestly don't see the need as the Sanden unit you have is a very good compressor. But if you want a Seltec we can arrange it be it though a new purchase and return the Sanden for credit. You can also send the Sanden back and when it is received we can ship the Seltec. But again seems like a waste when you have a very good option in your hands now.
Either way if you plan to reuse oil aka no system flush! You are taking a risk knowing the warranty policy of not flushing a system and having fresh and proper oil amount in the system.
-------------------------
Contact: ACKits.com
70monte on Wed July 28, 2010 1:39 PM
Thanks again for the replies. I'll have to check to see if the sub even has an owner's manual. Hopefully I won't need a new belt.
I've already decided to keep this compressor and make it work. I'm not saying its a bad compressor, I just think the Seltec compressor is a better option because you don't have to use spacers or worry about belt length and its cheaper.
I realize the correct way to do this repair is to flush the entire system but I'm not going to try to remove all of the lines going from the front of the engine compartment to the back of the Sub and try to remove the rear evap so it can be flushed when the OT was totally clean and so was any oil that I encountered from seperating lines.
Some of the connections at the back of the sub look pretty rusty and there is a good chance of damaging the lines. I'm going to take my chances with not flushing and if the compressor warrenty is void, so be it.
This system is being repaired for a leaking compressor and not for a compressor failure. If this would have been the case, It would be a different story. Thanks again.
Wayne
Cookiebaggs on Wed July 28, 2010 3:24 PM
I replaced my HT6 belly leaker on my 97 Tahoe with a Sanden compressor from AMA 2 years ago and also changed out the OT and accumulator. So far so good. I had no problem with the belt and other than having to recharge this spring because of a leaky pressure switch on the accumulator (glad I put dye in), the system has performed great giving me vent temps of 40ú-42ú. from what I've read, that's not bad for a C/K truck.
I had some evaporator cleaner that I use at work on our office AC's. I took out the glove box and sprayed down the fins on the evap with cleaner and let it sit for 5 minutes. I then took the garden hose and gently sprayed water on the evap to remove the dust and dirt. I think this helped.
70monte on Wed July 28, 2010 6:40 PM
Cookiebaggs
Did you totally flush your system and take apart the rear AC lines? If not, how much oil did you add to your system? I'm replacing the same things on this Sub that you changed on your Tahoe.
Your vent temps are very good. I don't think mine got quite that low on my two 98 chevy trucks.
I'm going to keep my fingers crossed on the belt issue. Thanks.
Wayne
We've updated our forums!
Click here to visit the new forum
Copyright © 2016 Arizona Mobile Air Inc.