Automotive Air Conditioning Information Forum (Archives)
V-5 Compressor Shaft Seal Size Pages: 12Last
JLHAWKINS on 
Mon July 27, 2009 10:19 PM 
Year: 1997
Make: Oldsmobile
Model: Cutlass Surpreme
Engine Size: 3.1
Refrigerant Type: 134A
Ambient Temp: 92
Pressure Low: 28
Pressure High: 230
Country of Origin: United States
The above vehicle has a small leak at the compressor case O-rings. Compressor is still on vehicle and performing fine. I am going to order the kits from AMA and replace the O-rings/gaskets and the shaft seal. My problem is trying to determine for sure whether this V-5 is a "large shaft" or a "small shaft" so that I can order the correct shaft seal kit. Most seem to think it will be the "large shaft".
AMA's description of the "large shaft" seal kit is "measures 18.25 mm at top of can". Their description for the "small shaft" seal kit is "measures 15 mm at top of can". So far no one has explained (at least not where I understood) what this "top of can" actually is. I find it had to believe that one has to disassemble the compressor to determine the seal size.
Today, I removed the clutch hub to see if anything in there looked like it measured either 18.25 or 15 mm. I am not sure that I saw anything that measured either of the two. One thing I did measure is the shaft size. The shaft size is .532 inches. Another thing I recorded while under the car was the compressor number (it is the original compressor on the vehicle with about 90K miles. The compressor is a Delphi Model No. 5145.
Could anyone confirm that it is the "large" shaft based upon measured shaft diameter or Delphi Model Number?
Any assistance in helping me determine which seal to order will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!!
GM Tech on Mon July 27, 2009 10:36 PM
All V-5's, R-4s, (and H-6s up until about 2000 MY) use the same seal-- I have never had to worry about the size- just use the one that fits all the mentioned models- get one for an R-4- it is the same seal as the V-5. I am spoiled- I have a bag of about 500 double lip seals- with no part numbers on the bag--so I can't help you on part numbers--
Tim should be able to specify- if I had to guess, I'd say you need the smaller seal-- since the only exception is the H-6 series- which used a bigger seal in early 2000 MY because it had a slightly larger shaft diameter....
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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......
TRB on 
Mon July 27, 2009 10:40 PM 
I've never got a straight answer on this myself other than what is listed. Top of the can means the distance of the indentation on the double lip seal.
0.532 inch = 13.512 8 millimeter so I would assume could use the smaller seal. But without seeing what you have I could not be 100 percent positive.
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Contact: ACKits.com
Chick on Tue July 28, 2009 12:18 AM
I have always used the larger seal, I tried the smaller one once and it didn't work out, so I would say the one with the large shaft is the one..I have your part number around here somewhere maybe on the thread when I out the seal in the A6, that is the one I use.. 21-34734 I believe
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Chick
Email: Chick
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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose
TRB on Tue July 28, 2009 10:49 AM
GMtech or Chick, since you all seem to be doing so many shaft seals what's the chance of getting you to measure the shaft on a few compressors. As soon as we can create a dbase on shaft sizes I think we can clear up this which seal issue. I have asked our manufacture to do this but have yet to hear back from them.
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Contact: ACKits.com
GM Tech on Tue July 28, 2009 11:28 AM
The V-5 shaft print shows the shaft seal diameter spec as 14.25-14.28mm (with tolerance)-has never changed since its inception in 1984-
-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......
daman on Tue July 28, 2009 11:35 AM
I'm doing this same repair soon on a 2000 V-5 along with O rings just going to order both sizes to make sure, so ones gota fit,lol.
-------------------------
'00 Pontiac Sunfire 2200 I4 SFI
'99 Chevy 4x4 Z-71 5.7 Vortec v8 CPFI
'97 Chevy 4x4 6.5 Turbo Diesel 2500
'95 Pontiac Grand Am GT 3100 v6 SFI
'88 Chevrolet Camaro IROC 5.7 TPI(49,000 original miles)
TRB on Tue July 28, 2009 11:38 AM
Not so much worried about the V5. It's the A6 and R4 which is being suggested to people to use the double lip seals. Versa the ones which are called for these types of compressors. If I remember correctly our manufacture stated they are using 4 different DLS between the A6, R4, H6 and V5. He said they just measure the shaft on the assembly line for the proper seal. We get calls every day where people want us to tell them which seal they need but don't want the OEM seal that is called for because so much has been made about using DLS here on the forum.
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Contact: ACKits.com
GM Tech on Tue July 28, 2009 11:56 AM
The same double lip seal works for all Delphi/Harrison/Delco Air/Frigidaire compressors-(A-6, R-4. V-5, older HR-6, H-6s) except the newer H-6s which went to a slightly larger shaft diameter in approx 2002 MY-The seal does not work on a V-7- it is already a double lip overmolded seal OEM. The H-6 series is a double lip OEM(the exact one everyone is trying to find) since 1997MY- so however you number it- as long as it is a double lip seal - and it is not for the larger shaft diameter H-6 series- then it will fit. I am not privy to part numbers- I just bag up what works- the factory part number is not the same as the selling (aftermarket numbers).....
-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......
TRB on Tue July 28, 2009 12:22 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by: GM Tech
The same double lip seal works for all Delphi/Harrison/Delco Air/Frigidaire compressors-(A-6, R-4. V-5, older HR-6, H-6s) except the newer H-6s which went to a slightly larger shaft diameter in approx 2002 MY-The seal does not work on a V-7- it is already a double lip overmolded seal OEM. The H-6 series is a double lip OEM(the exact one everyone is trying to find) since 1997MY- so however you number it- as long as it is a double lip seal - and it is not for the larger shaft diameter H-6 series- then it will fit. I am not privy to part numbers- I just bag up what works- the factory part number is not the same as the selling (aftermarket numbers).....
With that said anything pre 2002 should get the smaller seal?
-------------------------
When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com
daman on Tue July 28, 2009 12:50 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by: TRB
Quote
Originally posted by: GM Tech
The same double lip seal works for all Delphi/Harrison/Delco Air/Frigidaire compressors-(A-6, R-4. V-5, older HR-6, H-6s) except the newer H-6s which went to a slightly larger shaft diameter in approx 2002 MY-The seal does not work on a V-7- it is already a double lip overmolded seal OEM. The H-6 series is a double lip OEM(the exact one everyone is trying to find) since 1997MY- so however you number it- as long as it is a double lip seal - and it is not for the larger shaft diameter H-6 series- then it will fit. I am not privy to part numbers- I just bag up what works- the factory part number is not the same as the selling (aftermarket numbers).....
With that said anything pre 2002 should get the smaller seal?
x2 ???
-------------------------
'00 Pontiac Sunfire 2200 I4 SFI
'99 Chevy 4x4 Z-71 5.7 Vortec v8 CPFI
'97 Chevy 4x4 6.5 Turbo Diesel 2500
'95 Pontiac Grand Am GT 3100 v6 SFI
'88 Chevrolet Camaro IROC 5.7 TPI(49,000 original miles)
GM Tech on Tue July 28, 2009 2:07 PM
YES-- if and only if you define "smaller" by the shaft diameter--- and not some "can" height-- can anyone define the original dimensions that the OP states. perhaps a drawing or even a rough sketch? ....
-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......
TRB on Tue July 28, 2009 2:22 PM
What size shaft would the post 2002 H6 have?
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Contact: ACKits.com
Edited: Tue July 28, 2009 at 2:22 PM by TRB
Chick on Tue July 28, 2009 3:26 PM
Tim, if you remember I had problems with the small seals aftermarket had, they bowed out when trying to install them, you sent me # 21-34734 and they were the same as the GM or Delco seals I was buying, so whatever number that seal comes back to is what I use on V5's and R4's..I haven't done any of the larger H compressors, didn't know they had a larger shaft...
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Chick
Email: Chick
---------------------------------------------
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose
TRB on Tue July 28, 2009 3:35 PM
What GM Tech is saying (if reading correctly) you should have gotten the small seals unless you have the large post 2002 shaft.
-------------------------
Contact: ACKits.com
GM Tech on Tue July 28, 2009 4:06 PM
I'm trying to get confirmation as we speak-- the larger H-6 shaft ran for about 2 model years-- I originally said post 2002--I was a little late on that- but it should be from 2000 MY to 2002MY- after 2002 MY the H-6 shaft went back to the original size- but the seal changed entirely - to a "universal overmolded" double lip seal-(like V-7 uses)- uses no o-ring against front head- as did the V-5 in 2002 MY- it went common with the V-7 style- But OEM V-5 was short lived after that -- still many service models out there that have the new seal design. I'll have the bigger H-6 shaft dimension (2 yr run) that uses the old style double lip seal design here shortly.......
-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......
Edited: Tue July 28, 2009 at 5:21 PM by GM Tech
daman on Tue July 28, 2009 4:25 PM
Sooooo.....the v5 on my 2000 sunfire should be big 18mm??
i'm just ordering both dang it, lol
-------------------------
'00 Pontiac Sunfire 2200 I4 SFI
'99 Chevy 4x4 Z-71 5.7 Vortec v8 CPFI
'97 Chevy 4x4 6.5 Turbo Diesel 2500
'95 Pontiac Grand Am GT 3100 v6 SFI
'88 Chevrolet Camaro IROC 5.7 TPI(49,000 original miles)
Edited: Tue July 28, 2009 at 4:26 PM by daman
TRB on Tue July 28, 2009 5:03 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by: daman
Sooooo.....the v5 on my 2000 sunfire should be big 18mm??
i'm just ordering both dang it, lol
No that would;d be the large seal. According to this thread you would need the small seal.
-------------------------
When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com
daman on Tue July 28, 2009 5:13 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by: GM Tech
the larger shaft ran for about 2 model years-- I originally said post 2002--I was a little late on that- but it should be from 2000 MY to 2002MY- after 2002 MY the shaft went back to the original size
-------------------------
'00 Pontiac Sunfire 2200 I4 SFI
'99 Chevy 4x4 Z-71 5.7 Vortec v8 CPFI
'97 Chevy 4x4 6.5 Turbo Diesel 2500
'95 Pontiac Grand Am GT 3100 v6 SFI
'88 Chevrolet Camaro IROC 5.7 TPI(49,000 original miles)
TRB on Tue July 28, 2009 6:45 PM
Measuring the inside diameter of the seal itself.
21-34659
Showing the inside metal lip (TOC).
21-34659
Measuring the inside diameter of the seal itself.
21-34734
Showing the inside metal lip (TOC).
21-34734
-------------------------
Contact: ACKits.com
daman on Tue July 28, 2009 6:52 PM
Cool thanks Tim,helps!!!!
-------------------------
'00 Pontiac Sunfire 2200 I4 SFI
'99 Chevy 4x4 Z-71 5.7 Vortec v8 CPFI
'97 Chevy 4x4 6.5 Turbo Diesel 2500
'95 Pontiac Grand Am GT 3100 v6 SFI
'88 Chevrolet Camaro IROC 5.7 TPI(49,000 original miles)
Chick on Tue July 28, 2009 6:59 PM
21-34734
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Chick
Email: Chick
---------------------------------------------
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose
TRB on Tue July 28, 2009 7:07 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by: Chick
21-34734
?
-------------------------
When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com
Chick on Tue July 28, 2009 8:54 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by: TRB
Quote
Originally posted by: Chick
21-34734
?
That is YOUR number for the double lip seals that match perfectly with the GM and Acdelco seals I used to use.. I still have a few left with that number, and if you look at the thread on changing the shaft seal on the A6 compressor I show the pic with AcKits's number on the seal...
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Chick
Email: Chick
---------------------------------------------
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose
TRB on Tue July 28, 2009 9:18 PM
Unless I reading this thread wrong that is contrary to what GM Tech is saying is correct. You saying use the large seal and he is saying use the smaller except on 2000 to 2002 HR6.
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Contact: ACKits.com
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