Make: rolls royce
Refrigerant Type: 134a
Country of Origin: United States
I have been reading this forum for two days now.
Lots of great info.
I'm looking for someone in the Bedford,Ohio area that knows my GM a/c system.
I took this car to a local guy a few years ago and he put 134 in the system and it has never worked right.
anyone willing to look at my car?
Those systems reaaly need to stay R12 systems. The TXV's and POA's are made for R12.
Thank you for the reply.
Now if i can find someone in my area that understands this system I will be grateful.
Do you know of any shops that restore 60s/70s muscle cars? Call them and see who they use for A/C work on their vintage GM products...
You may want to check with this MACS member shop
Rad Air Complete Car Care
6565 Pearl Rd
Parma Heights, OH 44130-3826
Phone: (330) 220-8384
Fax: (330) 225-2058
good idea. I know of one shop that does corvettes. I'll ask him.
I'll give rad air a call and see what they have to say.
I ask the corner gas station/repair shop about it and he was truthful and said he didn't have a clue.
thanks for the replies.
I'll add another recommendation for Rad Air in Parma Heights.
They used to have a very good reputation in the area. I now live about 30 miles away but I'm sure they still do.
Additional info I found out from a Rolls dealer in Indiana.
They have someone that supposedly tweaks the EEVIR and all they were able to achieve was 51* vent temps with an outside temp of 83*. This is with R12.
I checked the service records I received from the original owner and the EEVIR was replaced in 1991 and the service record states 52* vent temp.
I spoke with Jack at AMA and he suggested maybe using the kit to replace the EEVIR but I'm not sure I have the room for this. Plus what I have read is that my A6 compressor doesn't like being turned on and off as the kit would have it do.
He also said he didn't know of anyone tweaking the EEVIR in order to obtain more favorable readings.
Anyone have any other ideas?
Hi 6t7gto; I'm still using a VIR unit in my old Chevy, still running r-12, cools great! My 2 cents, and others here, will say the same--convert it back to r-12. It's still readily available, although a bit higher than 134. We have covered tweaking older cars here converted over to 134 for some time, but no one, to my knowledge, has ever managed to tweak the POA valve in a VIR or EEVIR(very similar units) because the POA is a sealed unit. Stay with the EEVIR unit. A good shop will flush out all the old oil, etc. from the conversion, take off the r-134 fittings, allowing you to reuse the old r-12 fittings. Have them install new valve cores in the fittings, older ones will leak, put a new desiccant bag in the unit along with the proper amount of r-12 mineral oil, and enjoy the nice cold temps. Being a Rolls, I'd go the extra mile, for optimum cooling, (like I did on my Chevy), and install the largest r-134 aluminum parallel-flow condenser that will fit,(available this site) instead of the older unit in your car. This will pass less heat to the radiator, bring down head pressures , resulting in even cooler temps in the car. A-6 compressors did not like to cycle on/off, and would often blow the clutch faces off. My car did, and that's why I converted to the VIR unit-runs all the time, cools great at any speed. A good shop can make small "jumper hoses" to connect to your existing hoses(that's how mine works) to match the different ends on the new condenser ---no need to make all new hoses. If anyone says this will not work, find a more professional "we can do anything" A/C shop who will. It will be well worth the extra cost!! Hope this helps
Edited: Thu July 02, 2009 at 5:50 PM by fonebone
just what I was looking for.
When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: www.ACKits.com
There is absolutely NO need to tweak an EEVIR system. With the exception of the Corvette, vent temps in the 30F range were the norm in properly functioning systems on GM vehicles from 1974-1976 (and some 1973 models). That's why a premium vehicle like your Rolls was still using a VIR in 1984, after GM cheaped out in 1977 with CCOT and compressors clacking on and off.
Your system was and is malfunctioning somewhere with 51/52F vent temps at only 83F. Get us some pressure readings. Are there any bubbles in the sight glass? Keep in mind VIR (silver) and EEVIR (gold) components are pysically interchangable, but mechanically very different. If parts were replaced, it's entirely possible the wrong ones were installed - a lot of techs were not aware of the color difference in the parts meant something, even back in the 70s when they were more widely used.
Also try clamping off your heater hoses and see if vent temps improve after 15 minutes to confirm the A/C air isn't being diluted by the heater.
51/52F vebt temps wouldn't be acceptable in a Chevy with EEVIR, so they're certainly not acceptable in Rolls. With those kind of vents temps I certainly won't be pulling along side of you asking for Grey Poupon... it'll definitely be spoiled.
I'm glad one of the pros pointed out the problem with those vent temps. I've personally retrofitted a '77 DeVille (friend/owner's choice, not mine) with a double lip seal A6 with CCOT that easily did 42 degrees at an idle with an ambient of 90 degrees with the OEM condenser and a new fan clutch. I really like those old (non CCOT) A6 systems!
Thanks jjm and corvairgeek for your additional input---I did not want to "overload" my response with detailed differences with the 2 VIR units. My "B"body 79 factory specs call for 48 to 52 as the operating parameters temps out the vents, and all the ones I ever worked on during that period easily met and exceeded that. You are quite right pointing out the higher 51 degree temps on the Rolls. Sure sounds like a possible blend door/coolant problem, and like we have all seen, a combination of several factors adding to the higher temps. We all like to see easy one shot fixes to these problems, but life rarely accommodates us! You are so right,JJM, about those Corvette temps. Owners would complain about their feet cooking while trying to get cooler air out the vents from the A/C on long highway trips!
Edited: Fri July 03, 2009 at 7:44 PM by fonebone
Wow fellas, thanks for the responses.
My EEVIR is all black even the canister for the desicant bag.
It is mfg. by the Murray corp. Only number I could find on it is a serial number...155687. No model number.
I removed the hot water valve last year and installed a mechanical shut off valve so as to stop any hot water from entering the sytem. But now that I think about it, it really only shuts off the flow from one side. Is it possible hot water would still migrate to the heater core and cause poor temps?
When I removed the cable actuated water valve I noticed it does not shut off the hot water 100%. I could blow thru it with it in the shut off position.
The service records I have state that the hot water valve was adjusted. Obviously the previous owner complained about poor A/C temps. The owner did live in Florida.
Thanks for the replies.
Edited: Sat July 04, 2009 at 1:38 PM by 6t7gto
Hi David; I put in a cable operated shut off valve to replace the vacuum one, and I noticed I'd still get heat. I replaced it with a different one only after looking at the end holes in the new one and verifying that it truly did shut off fully when in the closed position. You can verify the shutoff effects by simply feeling both the intake to the heater core and the hose running back out. Should not be hot both ways, or in either direction if you shut off right at the block, otherwise you are bleeding through. You can also have a blend door problem, where it never fully directs the full fan air across the evaporator. A shop manual would be a big help here, because most would show a diagram of the door operations related to A/C, and heat/defrost modes, and what actuators are involved and where they position themselves. And of course, never rule out mice getting up inside and packing their nests fully to mess things up. We see a lot of that around here in the country. The will chew right through the intake screen, crawl way up inside and raise hell. If the car had sat immobile for a length of time, never rule out that option! Anyway, try to find a manual and familiarize yourself with the air flow in your vehicle, otherwise you are stabbing in the dark, then take it from there.
A black EEVIR manufactured by Murray??? Well, there's your probably right there! Murray = Four Seizin's = Junk. Definitely does NOT belong anywhere near a Rolls... except perhaps under one of the wheels for the amusement of hearing it break.
Check with Tim and see if he can get you a proper EEVIR from a reputable rebuilder, or try to find a NOS unit, and replace the desiccant bag (a nearly 35 year old desiccant bag is no good).
If there's anything else Murray or Four Seizin's in the system, rip them out as well. Go with R-12 and you should be look at vent temps in the mid 30F range.
I have bought some used parts from a fella in Florida.
Do you think a used EEVIR, with the correct gold container , would work?
Jack from AMA said EEVIR's were not available.
what about this one?..
Edited: Mon July 06, 2009 at 9:10 AM by 6t7gto
Or this one?...
The old EEVIR might be fine if the system it came from was uncontaminated, but you need to replace the desiccant. Also a good idea to replace all the o-ring seals. EEVIR rebuild kits are not that expensive.
The item on eBay seems to be a reproduction. Probably better off with an original. You might want to try contacting http://www.oldairproducts.com/ and see what they can do. Let them know you heard about them here.
I have left in stock a reman VIR (by ARA) if anyone is lloking for one. I will sell it thru Tim. I have never had a bad one from ARA.
let me get with Tim
Sorry I didn't get back sooner...been really busy. Tim said to just sell it. Let me get into my garage and retrieve it. I'll get with you on Tuesday eve.
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