hardline and Swagloc fittings for auto a/c

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jniolon
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Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:41 pm

hardline and Swagloc fittings for auto a/c

Postby jniolon » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:00 pm

Hello All... new guy, Google brought me here searching for information. I have a '53 Ford F-100 street truck project... it's been a frame off job with custom stuff. I have purchased a Vintage Air Sure-fit a/c system for it. The complete front of the truck (hood,grill,fenders, etc) is fiberglass and tilts up for access to the engine. The A/c lines will exit the firewall thru a 'bulkhead' fitting (a/c and heat lines) and are normally secured to the inner fenders... I don't have those and want something that is not flopping around and kinda 'trick' looking.

I'm considering using stainless steel tubing (hard lines) from the bulkhead fitting to the a/c compressor, dryer and heater lines (with short sections of flex hose at each connection for vibration and movement. (#6 Liquid line and #10 suction line ) I do have access to the tubing and industrial fittings (swagelok) and a pipefitter who is a heck of a tubing bender...

questions...
will the swagelok fittings and hard line work for my system. I know I need -AN fittings at each end of the runs (bulkhead and component)??
are -an automotive fittings compatible with Swaglok AND the i.d. and o.d of the standard stainless steel tubing??
are -an fittings compatible with industrial Swaglok ??
Would using bare hard line vrs rubber lines degrade the cooling of the system??
is this even doable.??

I think the hard lines all polished and pretty would look nice in the engine room and would be something unique.

I'm a newbie and know a little about -an and industrial fittings... but only enough to cause trouble.

thanks in advance
John
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Cusser
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:29 am

Re: hardline and Swagloc fittings for auto a/c

Postby Cusser » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:26 am

SwageLok are very good connectors, the only ones used in gas chromatography. You must match the outer diameter of your tubing to the SwageLok tubing connector size, and also use the same metal connector as the tubing is. We used SwageLok for the smallest molecules that exist: helium and hydrogen.

SwageLok connectors are available in SAE and metric sizes.
DetroitAC
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:33 am

Re: hardline and Swagloc fittings for auto a/c

Postby DetroitAC » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:06 am

I run an A/C lab and we use tons of Swagelok gaugeable compression fittings, they will work just fine for your truck, so will the hard SS tubing.

Agree that if your bender has skill then SS tubing should look pretty nice. Swagelok make adapter fittings to go from the gaugeable fitting to male AN. I've never liked AN flares, but if those are the hoses you can get... You can also cut off the AN flare and go right from SS tubing to the aluminum tubing of a hose/pipe assembly, they work great for that too.

Good Luck,
Erik
ice-n-tropics
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:40 pm

Re: hardline and Swagloc fittings for auto a/c

Postby ice-n-tropics » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:35 am

F-150:
Maybe you need a #8 hose at the compressor discharge instead of a #6 (you said)
Detroit: welcome back to Tim's band of Brothers. You are long time gone but certainly not forgotten. I also spent too many years in 130 degree (military) hot labs and cactus lands and DV (& jim Baker grade)
!st factory installed AC was on 39 Packard (released in 1938) that I rode in at a Packard club in Salido Texas (only remaining example) and had hard lines with flex brass bellows at the Lehiah compressor. I was zooming down I-35 when I saw this Packard on a access road so I chased it down and asked for a ride. Later years, this very Packard was on display at the SAE show.
In 50s, rubber hoses were tried unsuccessfully because the hose outer layer bubbled as R-12 permeated. AP Brandimart (my boss) showed Goodyear how to take a pin and puncture the outer hose layer of the hose so that R-12 could escape
I use Swedge Loc type fittings to insert a orifice tube into a condenser discharge line successfully
When fabbing fittings be aware that refrigeration flares are 45 degrees verses hydraulic fittings at 37.5 degrees and double flares are better than single flares or separate copper flare washers.
I built a mostly hard line Blazer A/C with Joe Dacus owner of ASTRO Air in Jacksonville TX Cherokee County (may he be at peace after crashing in a sea plane on a sand bar in the gulf with the Confederate Air Force) with 12 inch long rubber hoses at the compressor. We applied the brakes and simulated acceleration by revving the engine in gear to rock the engine to the MAX to insure no hose stretching. Also checked hood to compressor clearance using modeling clay at the minimum hood clearance point
Generally hard lines do not dampen NVH (noise vibration and harshness) like flex hoses., so you will get a noisy SD5H14 Vintage Air compressor. In this case use A SUCTION MUFFLER and possibly a discharge muffler, NOT A small DISCHARGE MUFFLER only AS USED ON SD7H15
Will need to use rubber mounts to restrain hard lines to reduce BRS (buzz rattle squeak)
hotrodac "How to Air Condition Your Hot Rod" @ Vintage AIR
jniolon
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Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:41 pm

Re: hardline and Swagloc fittings for auto a/c

Postby jniolon » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:40 am

back again.... well,I'm back on this project and refuse to surrender. I contacted Swagelok and they actually sent a salesman to my house to help me... I had first said that -an fittings were what I had, but after researching... I have male o-ring fittings on the bulkhead and Swagelok can not convert from those with o-rings...

I think I've located some 'weld/solder' in fittings in SS that will work and part of that equation is probably solved. Now I show my ignorance. I'm mapping out my lines and trying to figure out where what goes. I see fittings with service ports and some without.. and various locations in the system.

Does it matter 'where' in the line (between the compressor and condenser) the high side port actually sits or can it be anywhere in between those components. Given that accessibility is a good thing...

Same with the Low side...does it have to be close to the compressor in the #10 line or would it serve just as well at the bulkhead fitting...

Same with the trinary switch...

I'm a rookie so be gentle with me... this stuff is expensive and I'm trying not to just throw money over the fence... doing the right thing the wrong way... I wish I had a a/c guru or super rod shop close by that could educate me...

thanks for your patience
john
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Cusser
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Re: hardline and Swagloc fittings for auto a/c

Postby Cusser » Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:31 am

jniolon wrote:Does it matter 'where' in the line (between the compressor and condenser) the high side port actually sits or can it be anywhere in between those components. Given that accessibility is a good thing...

Same with the Low side...does it have to be close to the compressor in the #10 line or would it serve just as well at the bulkhead fitting...

Same with the trinary switch...


I don't have the expertise on this to definitively answer, but I'd say "yes" to the high side and low side fitting question, make for easier access. I won't even guess about trinary switches.
Dougflas
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: hardline and Swagloc fittings for auto a/c

Postby Dougflas » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:55 pm

I sort of remember GM had a problem eating compressors due to the route the lines were run. It seems (if I can remember) that the suction line cause liquid to enter the compressor and ate the valves. You might try to contact GMTech as he should have more info on this.
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Cusser
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Re: hardline and Swagloc fittings for auto a/c

Postby Cusser » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:26 am

Dougflas wrote:I sort of remember GM had a problem eating compressors due to the route the lines were run. It seems (if I can remember) that the suction line cause liquid to enter the compressor and ate the valves. You might try to contact GMTech as he should have more info on this.


Yes, this is claimed as the cause for compressor failure and slugging on vehicles such as our 2005 Yukon.

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