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4 Season AC Compressors

iceman2555 on Sat October 04, 2014 9:27 AM User is offlineView users profile

As part of a project, would it be possible that readers would post experiences with compressors manufactured by 4 Seasons. Please post experiences or perceptions of product quality.
Thanks,

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

TRB on Sat October 04, 2014 9:39 AM User is offlineView users profile

New models seem fine.

Reman models have not touched one in years.

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GM Tech on Sat October 04, 2014 2:37 PM User is offline

I won't use Four Seizens pumps-I have had five in my life that the pulleys separated because Four Seizens thinks they can grind down(resurface) the pulley faces like turning a brake drum and it gets too thin and the welds break.

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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

HECAT on Sun October 05, 2014 9:38 AM User is offline

The perception supported by comments I have heard for many years is the 4S Reman units are cheap, poor quality, and often fail (aka junk); thus the now commonly used phrase "Four-Siezens". Everyone seems to jump on these comments with agreement, and I have never heard anyone trying to justify the use of, or defend the product.

I personally believe there is also history to validate that products with high market share also get the brunt of the blame to a service problem. For example, years ago engine oil sludge, a byproduct of poor service (not changing the oil) was heavily blamed on the Quaker State product. More recently, the new formulation antifreeze and cooling system sludge, a byproduct of low coolant levels (air) and mixing of incompatible chemistry, is heavily blamed upon the Dex-Cool product. I use these 2 examples as my personal experience with both products have produced high mileage satisfaction upon inspection.

So from my perspective, there may be an underlying service issue that needs to be addressed; or the 4S Reman units just may be junk. IDK



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FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

TRB on Sun October 05, 2014 3:05 PM User is offlineView users profile

I know many hate the word China. But with the cost of import compressors there really is no reason for remans these days. Only a few models that are not covered in the import line. I know at our company the failure rate with a OEM compressor v import is about the same.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

iceman2555 on Sat October 11, 2014 10:39 PM User is offlineView users profile

Thanks for the responses. would have liked to see more...but what the heck.

This issue has been raised in a recent meeting with upper management. They were quite surprised to hear the '4 Seizen' nick name. This is an issue we wish to address and rectify. Reman's have always had a 'cloud of doubt' attached to them. Since the majority of our business is new units and the market is definitely accepting new as the 'standard. Remanufactured units still remain a part of our offering and will remain in the line. Once would be quite surprised at the number of 'tech's that still request this product.

Thanks once more for the comments.

FS

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

HECAT on Sun October 12, 2014 2:58 PM User is offline

Based upon results obtained with this audience; I think you are going to need to target the same topic to your commercial accounts or former accounts. They are going to be the ones who will form such strong opinions, refuse to use, and brand it with derogatory slang; based upon their experiences with pattern failures.

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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

TRB on Sun October 12, 2014 4:17 PM User is offlineView users profile

I think address the proper repair is most important. Most big chain suppliers will honor a warranty on the compressor. Now if the system was cleaned properly or not does not seem to be an issue. Hand then another one and so on. When you supply the likes of Autozone, Checker and Napa. You have a group of people that have very little knowledge of a proper repair. So even with a improved compressor I think you will still see a high failure rate. What I would ask Icemann2525, whats the failure rate between your new and reman lines?

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

HECAT on Mon October 13, 2014 7:12 AM User is offline

Professional roofers don't just slap shingles on a house (flat shingle roof-over) even though it is cheaper, faster, and will often work. They know the roof will last longer and perform better if they strip it down, clean everything up, and replace anything suspect; before putting the new shingles on.

So we can just slap on new compressors (roofs) because its cheaper, faster, and often works; and just keep finger pointing at brands, importing, parts chains, & technicians. We can even offer more required parts such as orifices, filters, and condensers (heavy felt) to be used. But ultimately, the compressor (roof) will last longer and perform better if they strip it down, clean everything up, and replace anything suspect; before putting the new compressor (shingles) on.

There is a big disconnect between being able to install a compressor, and knowing HOW to install a compressor.






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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

wptski on Mon October 13, 2014 7:46 AM User is offline

If that's not good, why do building codes allow roofers to install over an existing roof one time only?

Cussboy on Mon October 13, 2014 1:46 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: TRB
I think address the proper repair is most important. Most big chain suppliers will honor a warranty on the compressor. Now if the system was cleaned properly or not does not seem to be an issue. When you supply the likes of Autozone, Checker and Napa you have a group of people that have very little knowledge of a proper repair. So even with a improved compressor I think you will still see a high failure rate.


I'm tending to go with this route of thinking. For example: had I not emptied and measured the oil in the brand-new compressor (0.5 oz. oil), and just installed the new compressor as received, my system would've been severely deficient in oil and likely would've died quite soon.

And I wonder what percentage of "home mechanics" actually flush out the system?




Edited: Mon October 13, 2014 at 1:47 PM by Cussboy

TRB on Mon October 13, 2014 1:53 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: wptski
If that's not good, why do building codes allow roofers to install over an existing roof one time only?

Because a roofer is nailing through the old product to a sound foundation. Swapping a compressor you're sucking in debris causing damage.



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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

wptski on Tue October 14, 2014 7:42 AM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: TRB


Because a roofer is nailing through the old product to a sound foundation. Swapping a compressor you're sucking in debris causing damage.
A building code wouldn't know the condition of the substrate.

HECAT on Fri October 17, 2014 12:52 PM User is offline

The Roofer analogy has holes, I agree. Codes are minimums. Many professionals choose not stoop to minimums, just because code allows.

We may be able to pick up true signs and evidence from system failure analysis, and we may be willing to accept some risks associated with the unknown; but we will never know exactly how much oil, debris, and or other contaminations exist within a system. The only way to be sure of what baseline you have to work with, is to take it back to a clean and dry starting point. This can only be a accomplished with new pieces, cleaned like new pieces, or a combination of both.

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FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

James89dx on Tue November 18, 2014 10:22 AM User is offline

I currently have a Four Seasons compressor on my 89 Civic. I primarily went with it due to the two year warranty. After I purchased it, one of the mods here basically stated he would be surprised if it didn't fail on me.

I can report that my compressor shaft seal is now leaking. Keep in mind the compressor had a two year warranty. And it was leaking by about two years and two-three months.

In some slight defense of Four Seasons, my car uses a Sanden TR70 and I've basically learned that these compressors are crapshoots and seem to be plagued by leaks. Still sucks though I can't get more than a year or two out of any TR70's on my Civic. I think I'll be on my fourth one in 7 years. And wasting R12 each time the seals fail. And I haven't seen a fourth generation Civic (88-91) in probably over 10 years with an original still properly functioning OEM compressor/a/c system. Something about the TR70's must be really sub-par.

Edited: Tue November 18, 2014 at 10:25 AM by James89dx

mk378 on Tue November 18, 2014 11:27 AM User is offline

I have to knock on wood now about my 1991 with 260,000 miles on what I think is the original compressor (except that I did replace the clutch set.) I run 134a in mine. Performance is decent due to the full-width serpentine condenser, but if you're in a very hot climate you should probably stay with R-12 because these little car systems need all the help they can get.

I think with custom hoses you could fit a TRS90 from a 5th generation, by all regards it is a better compressor. Seem to remember trying that during the engine swap and finding the mounting was the same but the fittings are different. That was a while ago though.

Edited: Tue November 18, 2014 at 11:30 AM by mk378

James89dx on Tue November 18, 2014 5:35 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: mk378
I have to knock on wood now about my 1991 with 260,000 miles on what I think is the original compressor (except that I did replace the clutch set.) I run 134a in mine. Performance is decent due to the full-width serpentine condenser, but if you're in a very hot climate you should probably stay with R-12 because these little car systems need all the help they can get.



I think with custom hoses you could fit a TRS90 from a 5th generation, by all regards it is a better compressor. Seem to remember trying that during the engine swap and finding the mounting was the same but the fittings are different. That was a while ago though.

A guy on Honda-Tech, JMZ400, is doing that exact thing. Using the TRS90 from an EG Civic and using a parallel flow condenser and getting some custom lines/fittings made

chris142 on Wed November 19, 2014 10:07 PM User is offline

Nothing but trouble from @ seasons Rebuilts here. They either leak, Rattle,dont pump at low speeds or just dont work at all. A good customer has put 2 or is it 3 4season rebuilds on his Firebird in a month. The front seals are blowing oil (And $60 a lb) R12 out. The oil is making a line on the hood and fender shirts every time.

JUNK! I mean if the Chinese can make a compressor thats better than 4 seasons something is wrong. We always called them "Spray and pray" as thats what appears to have been done. Oh and I 2nd the reground clutches that are too weak and break. Seen that many times.

ice-n-tropics on Thu December 25, 2014 11:29 AM User is offline

TR70 weakness is old shaft seal technology together with shaft bearing TIR wear and also weak scroll wall in center portion that fatigue fractures easily
TRSA90 has reinforced center scroll wall with nearly double strength and better shaft bearing alignment and shaft seal technology
Important guidelines for rebuild is scribe alignment marks axially across front housing and rear body casing for guiding precise reassembly scroll interleave alignment
Also reassemble selective assembly components back together without introducing unmeasured/unmatched foreign parts from other compressors
Replacement of the temperature protection switch is not a simple procedure
Clutch air gap is 25% less than for piston compressors
Chinese new scrolls aren't half bad IMHO
hotrodac


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Isentropic Efficiency=Ratio of Theoretical Compression Energy/Actual Energy.
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igorMathavan12 on Wed March 04, 2015 12:31 AM User is offline

AC compressor problems are quite common.These problems occur when the routine maintenance is not provided to the ac system.You can replace the Air Conditioning system in the warranty period but the if the system is not under warranty you should be charged for the service also.

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igorMathavan

Edited: Wed March 04, 2015 at 12:34 AM by igorMathavan12

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