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High pressures, no cooling with correct charge

chris142 on Tue July 10, 2012 4:50 PM User is offline

Year: 2001
Make: ford
Model: expedition
Engine Size: 5.4
Refrigerant Type: r134a
Ambient Temp: 100
Pressure Low: 75
Pressure High: 500+
Country of Origin: United States

This truck came to me a few days ago. Was out or refrigerant. I found Dye all over the compressor hub. I replaced the compressor, dryer and Orifice tube. The old Orifice tube was clean as a whistle.

Spec in both of my books and the under hood sticker is 62 oz. It's a dual unit.

Put it together and it's not cooling well. 70psi on the low and 500+ on the high side. Fan clutch is engaged and the fan is screaming!

Thought I had a bad compressor so I put another one plus dryer plus checked the tube which was clean..

Same thing. I played around with the charge and it works best with 2lbs 14 oz in the system. Pressures are [email protected] 250/40 but it's still unbearably hot driving it.

Replaced the condenser, no change.

Checked the calibration on both AC machines and they are good.

I'm at my wits end here.
Thanks in advance.

JJM on Wed July 11, 2012 1:16 AM User is offline

I know you're a pro, but is the OT in right? Think it's in the liquid line (but not part of the liquid line). Are you sure there wasn't another OT installed elsewhere in the system?

Did you check the rear TVX for signs of plugging? Is the rear system even connected? I've seen some rear A/C systems disconnected after salt eats away at the lines, so if the rear A/C system was capped off, with the factory spec at 62 ounces, the system would be way overcharged. The fact that pressures return to normal with a much lower charge might be the clue the rear is disconnected or severely plugged. Any icing anywhere in the rear?

Is the engine overheating, or the radiator restricted? All the fan shrouds in place?

Do keep us posted!

Joe

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: www.ACKits.com


chris142 on Wed July 11, 2012 10:18 AM User is offline

yes the tube is in correctly. it's under the battery and a pain to acess. there's no other places to put another tube like there would be in a pickup. engine running 200-210 which is perfectly normal. has its fan shroud. my next guess is the rear valve is stuck open. tackling that in 5 minutes

bohica2xo on Wed July 11, 2012 1:25 PM User is offline

500 on the high side? Compressor test ok. Wow.

With a new condensor & no change I would be inspecting the high side plumbing inch by inch from the high side service port to the tee for the rear unit. Look for a cold spot or crushed tube.

Even with the rear TXV wide open there is no reason for that high side. You have a restriction someplace.

Keep us posted.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

chris142 on Wed July 11, 2012 6:13 PM User is offline

I went ahead and replaced the rear valve. No change. With it running I felt every line. No cold spots. I removed the R134a and have now disconnected every line at every fitting and blew through every line. I have lines off the condenser, lines off the compresser,lines off the front evap, lines off the rear evap etc. No restrictions. I shoved a straightened coat hanger down every connection looking fo an extra orifice tube.

I give up I've spent 4 days on this truck with no change which = 4 days of no pay. I'm going to put it back together and send it packing. I can't afford to keep working on it as I have bills to pay and I've lost a weeks worth of work due to it.

JJM on Wed July 11, 2012 8:35 PM User is offline

I can't believe you're giving up on this Chris. Did you try pulling the OT, charge, and see what happens? Maybe the OT is bad, or heck maybe a batch of bad OT's. Maybe put the old OT back? Are you sure the OT is right?

Are all the hoses original? Is it possible something might've been plumbed wrong from a previous repair?

Fact is, the system did cool at one time, and can cool again. Something is wrong somewhere. Any signs of sealer?

I understand about having bills to pay, but you can't let this beat you!

Joe

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: www.ACKits.com


chris142 on Wed July 11, 2012 9:55 PM User is offline

Yes everything is original except for the parts I swapped. I've put 3 tubes in it. No signs of sealer. The original tube was spotless as was the others I put in it. I even put a yellow one in it, the yellow has the same orifice size as the red.

Learned tonight that it's never worked well from when it was new and we are not the first place to work on it. Ford worked on it several times under warranty and it was eventully bought back by Ford under the Lemon law. Then the currant customer bought it and has been taking it to shops trying to get it fixed.

After blowing and poking everything out I put it back together, new Red tube, did a quick 20 minute (I know it should be longer)vacuum and charged it with 62oz. Oh I removed the fan and shroud and can see through the radiator core.

500+ on the high side and 70 on the low. Condenser is working great though. Smoking hot going in and cool coming out. I simply cant take any more loss on this truck. I'm paid on commision and this POS is killing my income. If I don't get onto paying jobs I'm going to lose my house. I Was paid to swap a compresser, dryer, tube and recharge a system. I'm not paid to spend 40+ hrs disassembling and reassembling the system for free with no change.

My boss is mad at it because he's into it for parts.

Neither end cools worth a darn. The line that comes off the condenser is too small for a tube to fit and is too curved to put one in if it did fit. It goes to a Y, one line goes to the rear and the other goes to the front. I've had the lines off the truck and in my hand and even if there was a restriction in one of the lines after the y one end should cool ok.

Like I said I tore every line off, blow through them and poked a straightened coat hanger as far as I could and theres no blockage.

We had a Taurus once. Same thing. Gave him his money back and sent that one packing too.

bohica2xo on Thu July 12, 2012 1:32 PM User is offline

I completely understand walking away from a loss like that. With the info up front that it was abandoned by Ford once, I might have sent it down the road without touching it.

The 500 psi and a hot condensor is a mystery - where is the refrigerant picking up that much heat if not inside the vehicle? But I would not chase such a mystery for free either.

Hopefully you find some gravy work the rest of the week. I just handed the GM dealer a fat warranty job monday morning. Kept a senior tech busy all the way to wednesday morning. LOL

B.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

JJM on Fri July 13, 2012 1:13 AM User is offline

Certainly understand... you gotta eat! I'm sure you're always gonna remember this one as the one that beat you though. I'm sure if you had the time, you'd figure it out, but this certainly wasn't what you were paid to do. I do feel bad for the owner of this thing though.

Perhaps you can offer the owner your services on the side if they're willing to pay T/M? If I had to guess, something was not plumbed properly from the factory, or wrong parts were used somewhere on the rear HVAC side.

Joe

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: www.ACKits.com



chris142 on Fri July 13, 2012 10:38 PM User is offline

It left today. The weather cooled down today too and it was working fair. They know whats up with it and are not blaming me or us for it's failure. About the only thing left to do would be to replace the lines that go to the rear evap.

I offered to plug them and see if the front would work by it's self but they opted not to do that.

Looks like I'll be eating Top Ramen Noodles this week.

JJM on Sat July 14, 2012 1:08 AM User is offline

I was almost thinking swapping the entire system from another '01 from the bone yard might have been the way to go... and I mean everything from the compressor, to the lines, to the tees, to the fan, radiator, condenser, control head ... all of it.

If you got the owners contact info, it might be worth a shot for a side job... then you could have a good shot of ending up with ny strip instead of top ramen noodles.

Sorry to hear about this whole fiasco.

Joe

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