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Problems with 1988 Acura. I need some help please!

Biscuit on Mon August 22, 2011 3:35 AM User is offline

Year: 1988
Make: Acura
Model: Integra
Engine Size: 1.6L
Refrigerant Type: r-134
Ambient Temp: 80
Pressure Low: 90
Pressure High: 90
Country of Origin: United States

I have been fighting with this thing since May and it's the only AC problem I have never been able to resolve on my own.

The system was working great until I installed an unused reman compressor that ran great for a few weeks until it blew a shaft seal.
I pulled that compressor and installed one that worked fine last year and it would not compress. I got readings of 90/90 on the gauges.
I bought a new shaft seal for the other compressor, installed it and got the same results of 90/90 on the gauges.
After looking at my factory service manual I thought the expansion valve could be bad so I installed a spare condenser that previously worked great but there was no change in the system.
Once the system gets about 3oz in the system the compressor turns on and will not suck in any more r-134.

I did not replace my drier after when the shaft seal was leaking for about three months. Still using the old drier.

Thank you!

Nathan

mk378 on Mon August 22, 2011 7:21 AM User is offline

Is it a Keihn compressor? Those really don't like R-134a. They run right at the edge of destruction with R-12 anyway.

HECAT on Mon August 22, 2011 7:31 AM User is offline

So what was the question? IMHO, you are fighting yourself. How many compressors?, How much oil is in there? What kind of oil is in there? Your TXV is located in the condenser? My first thought is to "restart"; get a new compressor and dryer (TXV maybe OK), flush the heat exchanger internals to clean dry bare metal, and charge with correct amount of mineral oil and R12 (if originally equipped, 1988?).

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FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

Biscuit on Tue August 23, 2011 2:45 AM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: mk378
Is it a Keihn compressor? Those really don't like R-134a. They run right at the edge of destruction with R-12 anyway.

It's a Nippondenso 10P15C 10 cylinder wobble plate compressor.

Biscuit on Tue August 23, 2011 2:51 AM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: HECAT
So what was the question? IMHO, you are fighting yourself. How many compressors?, How much oil is in there? What kind of oil is in there? Your TXV is located in the condenser? My first thought is to "restart"; get a new compressor and dryer (TXV maybe OK), flush the heat exchanger internals to clean dry bare metal, and charge with correct amount of mineral oil and R12 (if originally equipped, 1988?).

The question is why won't it take in any more than 3oz of R-134?
I have two compressors.
I have no idea how much oil is in there.
The oil in it is for an R-134 conversion. I cannot remember which one but I do remember that it's the correct type of oil. It's been in the system for 14 years.
The TXV is attached to the condenser.
I cannot afford to restart. The compressor alone costs about $400.


Edited: Tue August 23, 2011 at 2:53 AM by Biscuit

mk378 on Tue August 23, 2011 8:40 AM User is offline

I think you have evaporator and condenser confused. TXV is inside the evaporator box under the dash, connected to the evaporator.

Are you using a vacuum pump before charging? Have you ever replaced the receiver-drier?

The "new rebuilt" compressors are probably shipped filled with mineral oil for R-12 service, it is not the proper oil for R-134a.

Compressor off the car, hold your thumb over the discharge port and rotate the clutch plate by hand (in the same direction the engine turns it). It should build air pressure.

Edited: Tue August 23, 2011 at 8:47 AM by mk378

NickD on Tue August 23, 2011 6:14 PM User is offline

If it were my car, would have left it R-12, Honda really tuned these systems for this refrigerant, hard to believe it worked great. You must really have some outstanding high pressures to blow a compressor seal.

HECAT on Wed August 24, 2011 7:20 AM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: Biscuit
Quote

Originally posted by: HECAT

So what was the question? IMHO, you are fighting yourself. How many compressors?, How much oil is in there? What kind of oil is in there? Your TXV is located in the condenser? My first thought is to "restart"; get a new compressor and dryer (TXV maybe OK), flush the heat exchanger internals to clean dry bare metal, and charge with correct amount of mineral oil and R12 (if originally equipped, 1988?).



The question is why won't it take in any more than 3oz of R-134?

I have two compressors.

I have no idea how much oil is in there.

The oil in it is for an R-134 conversion. I cannot remember which one but I do remember that it's the correct type of oil. It's been in the system for 14 years.

The TXV is attached to the condenser.

I cannot afford to restart. The compressor alone costs about $400.

A 23 yr old system (original oil), converted 14 years ago (maybe just added oil), all these component changes and recharges (adding oil?). By your own answers you have no idea how much oil is in there; maybe there is so much you cannot charge more than 3 oz in. If you want to keep playing with the assumed good used compressors and parts; you should at least flush all the old oil out, invest in some fresh oil, and install the correct quantity.

Are you charging into a vacuum?

According to Mitchell, the TXV is located in the evap case behind the glove box on the 88 Acura. The condenser is in front of the radiator.


-------------------------


HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 


Edited: Wed August 24, 2011 at 7:27 AM by HECAT

Biscuit on Thu August 25, 2011 2:46 AM User is offline

Yes I confused condenser with evaporator.
What frustrates me is it worked so well and after the shaft seal blew it gives me hell.
The high side pressure was normal when the seal blew out. It blew after running great for a few months.

Edited: Thu August 25, 2011 at 2:50 AM by Biscuit

NickD on Thu August 25, 2011 2:35 PM User is offline

How does a shaft seal blow? Was it put in backwards? Did it have the retaining ring installed? Was the high side pressure insane? But with the latter, usually something else blows first, like a hose. Always a first time. Assume the dual function switch was installed and working properly. Have to test those with liquid nitrogen, air compressors don't go that high, kick out at around 400 psi. Or you can just assume they work.

Biscuit on Fri August 26, 2011 10:02 PM User is offline

Yes I do pull and hold a vacuum before charging.
I think the high side was operating at 250psi? I'll have to look at my notes.
The shaft seal was installed correctly and with a snap ring to retain it.

NickD on Sun August 28, 2011 7:37 AM User is offline

Was your shaft seal made in China? Same with their bearings. Not only taking our jobs, but adding to the misery of getting all junk components.

Testing a compressor seal with vacuum is worthless. Its a unidirectional device, and the most you can get is a negative 30"/Hg, that translates into a negative 14.7 psi. Could be able to withstand a positive 600 psi of pressure without failure.

Biscuit on Mon August 29, 2011 4:31 AM User is offline

I have no idea where the shaft seal was made but it looked exactly like the replacement I bought from AMA.
I think my problem is bad head gaskets and I cannot find replacements. New head gaskets were available last year at all of the major auto parts stores but not any more, and not from AMA.

Edited: Mon August 29, 2011 at 4:32 AM by Biscuit

Biscuit on Sat September 03, 2011 6:21 AM User is offline

Could I simply be low on oil?
I disassembled a dead compressor and noticed that there are no rings on the pistons.
There is a groove where you would think a ring would go.
I'm guessing that groove needs oil to apply compression?

iceman2555 on Sat September 03, 2011 4:30 PM User is offlineView users profile

Sie bitten um Hilfe ... aber wollen nicht Suggestion aufgrund von Bedenken Kosten übernehmen !!!

The shaft seal 'blew' because of lack of lubricant in the area. Denso compressors do not have 'rings' on them...well...some reman'd units do...but the OE design should have the pistons coated witha teflon type material. The shaft seal probably developed a leak due to lack of lubricant within the area. Also, the shaft seal is in the suction (low pressure) section of the compressor. Normal inspection of a leaking shaft seal area will indicate little to no lubricant on teh seal...or debris within the seal surfaces.

Know also that it is not the compressors job to 'suck' refrigerant into the system...the systems should be charged complete prior to compressor engagement. This is a 'short cut' learned over the years and can result in serious compressor longevity issues.

A suggestion...one it is doubtful that will accepted....get back to a base clean system. Recover the refrigerant....remove the evap/TXV and completely flush the evap....reinstall the TXV...suggest to replace...insure that the evap is clean and there is no residual lubricant in the unit. Clean and flush all the lines and the condenser. This is a free flow condenser and should be able to be flushed....very rarily are they seriously contaminated. Install all parts, utilize the correct lubricant for the chosen refrigerant. Suggestion would be to return the system- to R12. However, it is doubtful this will occur. Use the correct PAG lube for this system. Be careful with the lube amount...this is a 5 oz system. Evac and recharge. Once more a suggestion would be to have this done by a professional utilizing the correct recharge equipment. Try for a 85-90% recharge rate (134a to 12 specs). Opps...forgot...replace the Rec/Drier/Filter.

Taking the short cuts expressed with this post is a great way to spend lots of extra money...and time....getting to do the job over and over and over. 'Do it all....do it right...do it once'

Insure that the compressor is truly engaging...shaft seal leakers do not normally result in a non pumping condition.

Good luck with your repair.



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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
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