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O-Ring, gasket kit, and oil treatment before charge

seandil on Thu March 10, 2011 1:44 AM User is offline

Year: 1990
Make: Toyota
Model: Camry
Engine Size: 2.0
Refrigerant Type: R12
Country of Origin: United States

I have read your flushing procedure and its great advice,
Thanks for helping the do-it yourselfer. My 3SFE 2.0 4 cylinder Camry has the old stuff, R12. I plan to put R12 back in after reading several message boards. My Chilton's manual has procedures for discharging, evacuating, and re-charging the system; but not flushing advice. I read your advice and fell good about it. I will get a touchup paint gun for my air compressor and fill the bottle on it with paint thinner and flush the lines, the evaporator, and the condenser after removing the car's AC compressor. I will remove the evaporator, and condenser too. Here's my first question:

Can I flush the AC lines while still in the car or do I remove them as well?

There are several types of kits available I notice from allot of places for different prices concerning the O-rings, and car AC compressor gaskets. I am unsure of what I need. Do I need the one called "O-ring and gasket kit" or just buy the "O-ring kit" and "gasket kit for the compressor" separately?

Are there Gaskets that go other places than the compressor?

I also noticed people saying that if I flush the system I need to coat the AC line with oil. I noticed an "R12 oil treatment" for sale that contains some R12 with the oil mixed in. I do not have a procedure on how to add it to the system. I assume that I would just add the tapped can of the stuff first and just follow the re-charging procedure?

Would I use the "liquid" (can upside down connected to the LOW side) method or the "vapor" (can right side up connected to the HIGH side with the engine running) method?

I was told to replace the dryer, expansion valve on the evaporator, replace O-rings, add oil to the compressor compatible with R12, and I will cleanup and replace any gaskets and seals associated with the compressor as well. Is there anything else after evacuation that I should do?

My Camry is a 1990 and the AC worked up until 2003 when I cleaned my engine and sprayed some WD 40 on the compressor for extra cleaning. It got hot and began to smoke. A short time later the AC got weaker and weaker. I went to a place and the guy had one can of R12 left. He checked the car and said it was fine with no leaks. This place is very reputable. That charge lasted until two years ago and now the AC does not cool at all. I checked the lines and one gets warm and the other does not even feel cool. I will check with a manifold AC gauge the system, but think most likely all the coolant is gone. The last time I turned it on after 20 minutes a white smoke filled the car and scarred me to death! I will take it to someone for evacuation if there is any pressure in the line when I check, as per law. However, I do plan on fixing it myself. Hopefully I can past the EPA 609 test and buy some old R12 off eBay, and rent the manifold gauge and vacuum pumps form somewhere local.

Please see if I have covered my bases and advise on my questions.

Thanks,
Mark

HECAT on Thu March 10, 2011 5:38 AM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: seandil
I have read your flushing procedure and its great advice, I will get a touchup paint gun for my air compressor and fill the bottle on it with paint thinner and flush the lines, the evaporator, and the condenser after removing the car's AC compressor.

Mark,

A touch up paint gun and paint thinner? Please read (or re-read) the link in my signature and reconsider your strategy.




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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

TRB on Thu March 10, 2011 9:45 AM User is offlineView users profile

Can I flush the AC lines while still in the car or do I remove them as well?

You can flush any component attached to the vehicle. But it must be flushed as a separate item. Removing components makes this task easier at times.

There are several types of kits available I notice from allot of places for different prices concerning the O-rings, and car AC compressor gaskets. I am unsure of what I need. Do I need the one called "O-ring and gasket kit" or just buy the "O-ring kit" and "gasket kit for the compressor" separately?

Our item CP3008 is what is needed.

As far as your other questions. You need to determine the failure and address that area first.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

mk378 on Thu March 10, 2011 10:13 AM User is offline

From the symptoms you describe it appears the car has a significant leak, but there is still some R-12 left. If it had leaked down to zero pressure, the compressor would not engage due to the low pressure switch.

In a case like this you really don't need to flush. Improper flushing is worse than not at all. Flushing is typically done because of compressor failure or to remove the old oil in conversion jobs.

First use gauges to confirm there is some refrigerant but not a full charge as suspected. Then find the leak. As there is still refrigerant inside, an electronic leak detector is likely to find it. Recover refrigerant and make repairs. A new receiver-drier should be installed if the original one is still there, as it is going to be saturated with water over the years and useless. Add oil to replace that which was trapped in the old receiver drier. New o-rings should be put on the discharge line connections (between compressor and condenser) in any case because that line runs hot which tends to harden the o-rings causing leaks. The rest can be left alone if not leaking. Then leak check the system again before evacuating and charging with R-12.

seandil on Thu March 10, 2011 6:21 PM User is offline

Thanks gentlemen,
I will check out CP3008 TRB. Thanks for pointing it out. I just do not want to get into something and need more seals and O-Rings to finish.

MK 378, thanks for all the detailed advice. I will do what you say, but need a procedure or something on how to leak check the system using a tester. Please send me a link to where I can read about it. I figure the AC compressor needs an oil change or at least oil added. My system is 20 years old and I thought a taking it all apart and cleaning everything would be a good idea since I have the time. My Chilton's manual says if the pressure on the LOW end gauge on the vacuum manifold is NOT more than 23-24 in. of Hg after or during evacuation, then I have a leak. I thought that I would Get the lines evacuated so all the R12 is gone, and then have who does it tell me what the pressure reading was or how low it got while they removed the old R12. I was thinking this may prove that there is a leak.
Afterwards, I was basically just going to do what I said in my original post which was basically take everything apart, flush it individually, clean it, replace gaskets and O-rings using the sealant ACkits sales for R12 systems, and add oil to the compressor. Once all back together and given a day or so to settle, I was going to evacuate the system and check it again for leaks by making sure the pressure on the LOW end was greater than 24 in. of Hg. If not I would then get a leak tester and go from there. At this point I would need a procedure on how to do it properly. If unsuccessful, I guess I would take it to a professional before going further. I mean no sense in adding expensive coolant if it just leaks out again. Thanks for you advice and help.

HECAT,
I am sorry if I suggested something crazy, but I am sure I read on another message do-it yourself-er board like fixya.com a list of stuff to flush your car AC lines and parts with, and they listed mineral spirits, paint thinner, carburetor cleaner, brake cleaner, and a bunch of other volatile stuff. I have a portable air compressor and just thought since I have a ton of mineral spirits, and paint thinner that I would just use it up? Sorry for my ignorance as this is my first time to attempt this sort of repair. My car is not worth much money and I thought this would be a good time to learn this sort of thing on my junker car.

What cheap solvent would you recommend using and how would you do it, if not using an air compressor? Carburetor and brake cleaner are real expensive for what you get in the can. Please let me know.

Thanks everyone for the help and advice. I will post more if I can not find where you already answered the question,

Mark

HECAT on Fri March 11, 2011 1:55 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: seandil
HECAT, What cheap solvent would you recommend using and how would you do it


I would recommend using this. Mineral spirits can be used for mineral oil removal. It is not recommended for PAG or POE oil removal. The chemical cocktails used to make the other solvent cleaners you mentioned may contain certain chemicals that are harmful to the system components.

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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 


Edited: Fri March 11, 2011 at 1:55 PM by HECAT

seandil on Fri March 11, 2011 10:27 PM User is offline

Thanks HCAT,
I would consider buying the $21.00 half gallon and then use my air compressor with a paint gun attachment to flush the lines out. Does that make sense?

HECAT on Sat March 12, 2011 8:11 AM User is offline

IMHO, No; the method you describe does not introduce enough liquid volume or provide enough liquid velocity to properly clean A/C components. Again IMHO, it is like trying to wash a school bus with a toothbrush; not something I am going to do. Make sure the components are completely dry and void of oils and solvents, if any doubt, repeat until all reservations are eliminated. Like MK said, flushing done wrong can cause more problems than good.

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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

seandil on Tue March 22, 2011 1:01 AM User is offline

Hi,
Thanks for setting me straight. I spoke to a guy at Autozone and he said they had the flush and the compressor oil compatible with the old R12 system. He said I would remove the components that I want to flush and simply pour the flush into the component. After following directions, he said to flush each component with liquid nitrogen. Since I have no access to that, he suggested that if I thoroughly drain each component and then blow compressed air through each part, it would be OK as long as when I got it all back together I pulled a vacuum on the system for at least 45 minutes. This is supposed to remove any excess moisture left from the flushing and compressed air blowing. They also will tool loan me a vacuum pump, where I may only have to buy a fitting to make it compatible with an old gauge manifold set I just bought.
Am I on the right track now? Your flushing procedure requires some tools and expense that I can not make now especially on a car only worth around $1800.00 or so. Thanks again for trying to help.
Now I found a compressor gasket kit and from what I can tell, its different form the o-ring set you sell. Since I am removing and cleaning the compressor, and adding mineral oil to it, do I need one kit for compressor gaskets plus the kit you sell for o-ring to the rest of the system. Please let me know. One place I found looks like they sell a kit that has both for $30.00. I was just wondering. I am trying to line up all my ducks before I begin. Thanks again.

Dougflas on Tue March 22, 2011 2:36 AM User is offline

The flush kit that Hecat suggested is a great deal as they are giving you a free gallon of the correct type flush solvent. This piece of equip has a scrubbing action that will save time and flushing solvent. You could always let your firends and family know you have the correct equip and recoup your investment. Once you use it, you'll realize it's value. The advice from Autozone I'm sorry to say is not the best way to say the least.

ice-n-tropics on Tue March 22, 2011 11:03 AM User is offline

seandi,
my 2 cents:
Listen real good: Just fix what's broke. Messing with unnecessary flushing could just introduce chemical contaminates which are not easy to remove.
MK378's advice was spot on, that is, nothing said would justify flushing your A/C.
With 1828 useful posts, this is not MK378's first rodeo.
Cordially,
hotrodac

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Isentropic Efficiency=Ratio of Theoretical Compression Energy/Actual Energy.
AMAZON.com: How To Air Condition Your Hot Rod

seandil on Wed March 23, 2011 12:53 AM User is offline

Thanks gentlemen,
I was just scarred since the car is 20+ years old, maybe its time to overhaul it before problems start. I bought a dryer. expansion valve, and gasket/ O-ring kit. I will get some compressor oil for the R12 system and cleanup the compressor real good. I will see if I can get a leak tester as a tool loaner first and find the leak. I will do what you gentlemen suggest. Sorry I am so inexperienced and you all are right, this is my first rodeo. I'll post what I run into.
Right now I would like to know if I really need that sealant ACKits.com sells for the old system O-rings? Let me know and thanks. I also, bought an old gauge manifold off eBay. Autozone will tool loan me a vacuum pump and I bought an adapter for that, since all their stuff is for the R134a system. It was also suggested that I pour 2 ounces of the mineral oil into the condenser to lubricate the system once I change out the O-rings? This in addition to what I add to the compressor. Should I add some mineral oil to the other lines and to the evaporator too? Just wondering and thanks again for the advice. I'll leak test first.

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