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07 expedition not performing

douge on Fri September 10, 2010 6:40 PM User is offline

Year: 2007
Make: Ford
Model: expedition EL
Engine Size: 5.4
Refrigerant Type: 134a
Ambient Temp: 91
Pressure Low: 50
Pressure High: 310
Country of Origin: United States

I am having issues with my 07 expedition EL cooling. Bought new from dealer, never had any AC service other that dealer inspections. Has not cooled well from new and have taken it back several times to be told it is within spec. Now that warranty is out and we are in one hot summer in N. Texas, it has become useless for my family.

Ran some tests, 91 degrees, 56% humidity.

at 1500 RPM parked with recirculate off running both front and rear ac at max, windows open, recorded the following:
Low: 50 psi, High: 310-325 psi, vent temp, 84 degrees. Fan clutch was engaging and roaring (noted by the low end of the high pressure). Compressor never disengaged

Then same test, but with windows closed and recirculate on:
Low: 35 psi, High: 285-325 psi, vent temp, 74 degrees. Fan clutch was engaging and roaring (noted by the low end of the high pressure). Compressor never disengaged

When driving on highway the best vent temp recorded is just below 70.

Are these pressures in the ballpark? Any ideas as to what to do next? Any advice would be appreciated because it is hot in this truck.

Thanks

Kester 245 on Sat September 11, 2010 9:41 AM User is offline

htguru on Sat September 11, 2010 2:53 PM User is offlineView users profile

high side i would think should be in the 225 to 250 range, can't believe at that high the compressor didn't cycle on or off. any chance of getting front evap inlet and outlet temp as well as condenser temps

douge on Sat September 11, 2010 3:25 PM User is offline

I will have to pick up some equipment to do so but will this weekend.

Should this be done at idle or a certain RPM?

htguru on Sat September 11, 2010 3:47 PM User is offlineView users profile

same as your other tests

douge on Mon September 13, 2010 6:18 PM User is offline

douge on Mon September 13, 2010 6:22 PM User is offline

Tried to take temp readings but am having problems and know the readings are not correct. For example, at idle, with an IR thermometer I was getting temperatures of 156 and 162 on the tubes entering the firewall. I can touch the cool line and it is cool so I know it is not anywhere near 156. Is it that IR thermometers don't work for this situation?

Also, should the color of the refrigerant and oil be a bright green?

ghiotom on Mon September 13, 2010 7:55 PM User is offline

The green is probably dye , for finding leaks.

douge on Wed September 15, 2010 7:38 PM User is offline

Retested at 92 degrees and 44% humidity and checked temperatures as posted.

At idle parked with recirculate off running both front and rear ac at max, windows open, recorded the following:
Low: 43 psi, High: 285-290 psi, vent temp, 73 degrees, condensor in 192 degrees, condensor out 153 degrees, in to evaporator 59 and out of evaporator 66. Fan clutch was engaging and roaring (noted by the low end of the high pressure). Compressor never disengaged

At 1500 RPM parked with recirculate off running both front and rear ac at max, windows open, recorded the following:
Low: 34 psi, High: 285-295 psi, vent temp, 68 degrees, condensor in 202 degrees, condensor out 141 degrees, in to evaporator 55 and out of evaporator 77.

At 1500 RPM with windows closed and recirculate on:
Low: 31 psi, High: 295 psi, vent temp, 62 degrees, condensor in 205 degrees, condensor out 135 degrees, in to evaporator 52 and out of evaporator 75.

Notice that I had better vent readings, mainly because my thermometer was found to be bad. I trust the new numbers better.

Any ideas where to go next? I still don't get any cycling of the compressor; it stays engaged 100% of the time. Also still have a concern as to why the fluid is bright green. As mentioned above, it might be dye, but I bought the truck new and have not had any service performed other than the dealer checking its performance. I doubt they would have leak checked since they said it was performing correctly.


any help would be appreciated.

iceman2555 on Wed September 15, 2010 8:41 PM User is offlineView users profile

If this vehicle was in the shop for service, my first suggestion would be: Determine the purity of the refrigerant, recover the system, note the amount of charge removed and compare to OE specs. Then the system would be evacuated and recharged with the correct equipment to insure a proper charge. The first step to a system diagnosis is to know if the system is properly charged.
The suggestion to test certain temps is great and is used each day. However, it remains that it must be known if the system is properly charged.
The temps posted represent some very serious issues...if the temps are indeed true.
What type tool is being used to test for these temps?
The condenser inlet and outlet temps all represent some possible serious issues. First is the inlet temps are extremely high. A inlet temp of 153 is border line for system performance. 153 degrees equals a pressure of app 250. ( sorry do not have a pressure/temp chart available at the present time). Elevation of the engine rpm/compressor rotational speed indicates a serious increase in discharge temps. The posted temp indicates a pressure point of over 450 psi. This far exceeds the release point of the system PRV.
It is quite possible that these pressure temps for the condenser are correct....if so they indicate a restricted condenser. This is not an uncommon problem with this vehicle and would also coincide with the cooling issues.
The other side of this issue is that the compressor is able to produce these pressures. Normally a restricted condenser is the result of internal compressor failure, however, it is quite possible that the compressor has suffered some internal damage that resulted in the restriction and is able to produce the posted pressures.
My first thoughts are the temperature measurements, esp if taken with a infra red or laser gun, are incorrect. If taken with a good thermocouple, then the system is in need of serious repairs.
Insure that the system is properly charged and that a true temp is being taken.
The pressures/temps posted are a bit suspect.

-------------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

douge on Wed September 15, 2010 9:22 PM User is offline

The temps were recorded with a thermocouple and taken several times. I am confident they are correct within a reasonable tolerance.

What I am looking for is someone to tell me this isn't normal because the dealer has said it is, even though I'm sure they never analyzed anything other than vent temp. I think I can now believe my expectations are not unreasonable.

My next step is to elevate this to the service manager since this was an issue when the vehicle was under warranty. If he doesn't want to help, I have the BBB and the regional Ford Rep. If all else fails, looks like Ford won't have a place in the garage any more. Frustrating that Ford won't stand behind their products when they don't work.

I would have no problem paying for someone to evacuate and refill and retest, but as soon as I do I'm sure Ford will then say that is what caused the problem.

Thanks for the help. Any other advice would be appreciated.

douge on Wed September 15, 2010 9:50 PM User is offline

I dug out the receipts and one says Ford evacuated and refilled. The second one says they checked for leaks, etc. This might explain the green dye.

Now I suspect they refilled incorrectly. I think another evac and refill at a different shop is in order.

Anyone out there in TX know a good shop in Dallas/Arlington area?



iceman2555 on Thu September 16, 2010 11:22 AM User is offlineView users profile

There is a shop located in North Richland Hills that does excellent work, contact me if you would like more information. email @ [email protected]

-------------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

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