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installed new kit, not cooling good!

vwdave33 on Sun June 27, 2010 5:16 PM User is offline

Year: 1997
Make: honda
Model: civic
Engine Size: 1.6
Refrigerant Type: R-134a
Ambient Temp: 85
Pressure Low: 40
Pressure High: 250-275
Country of Origin: United States

Im having a problem with a complete kit i purchased to add air conditioning to my honda civic. I installed the kit and charged it up according to instructions...which said 6 oz of oil was shipped into compressor...it told me to add 2 oz into receiver /dryer prior to install, and that i needed to add 24 oz of refrigerant into system. I added the r-134a and noted the pressures, low was between 43-55 it varied since car was idling in driveway, the high side was anywhere from 200 to 275...I looked on temp/pressure chart and according to chart it said i should be about 39 psi on low side, the ambient temp was around 80...basically the air wasnt cold enough coming out the vent. I drove for a day or two and every morning when temp was 70 or so...the air felt great in the car, driving down freeway...in afternoon it was blowing warm air out vents...and eventually after 20 mins of driving air felt better...not real cold but comfortable. this was on high speed on fan and recirculate. anyway after a few days i kept putting on gauges and i came to conclusion that it was possible it was slightly overcharged, even though the instructions said to add 24 oz....my low pressure seemed on the higher side of scale being 43-55...so i recovered r134....I put into a vacuum, recharged with new r134a one whole can of 12 oz i still had same results as before, so i added another 8 oz...this brought low side to 42 psi on a 85 degree day...which according to the chart is ideal...also my high side is now 250-275 psi...this was done on a 85 degree day. I checked air coming out vents and it was 80 degrees with car idling in driveway for 5 mins...if i put foot on gas and revved up engine it would go down to only 78 degrees. im not sure what the problem could be? this is a brand new kit purchased for over 1000$. Im thinking the car should cool better than 78 degrees out vent. my girlfriends car is a 1999 vw cabrio and it cools her car cold and within a few mins. mine takes a long time after driving down freeway.soo i feel like something isnt right but not sure what? any help would be much appreciated.

Edited: Sun June 27, 2010 at 5:20 PM by vwdave33

Cussboy on Sun June 27, 2010 6:56 PM User is offline

Did you pull a good vacuum, for like 45 minutes, then see if it held pressure, before you added your refrigerant?

vwdave33 on Sun June 27, 2010 6:58 PM User is offline

vwdave33 on Sun June 27, 2010 7:08 PM User is offline

I pulled vacuum for about 20 mins...till my gauge on low side was on -30 and high side was pegged back on the stopper. i then closed off high low side gauge knobs, waited 15 mins and it seemed like it hadnt moved....then recharged. earlier I went out to take temps of my lines with a pipe clamp meter. my evaporator line ( one connected to tvx valve) was 57F. on that same line opposite side of txv was 106F. low side line coming into compressor was 84F. high side line from compressor to condenser inlet was 167F. condenser line outlet was 125F. inlet from drier(condenser line outlet) 134F. drier outlet(line that runs back to txv before evaporator) 134F. it appears top be doing what its supposed to I think? just no cooling...I mean it cools but air is 80F out of vents...which is only 20 degres cooler than outside air. Maybe I will evacuate and pull vacuum again and then recharge....I could reuse this time right? its getting expensive to buy new.

Cussboy on Sun June 27, 2010 8:01 PM User is offline

Spray some water on the condenser, see if the pressures drop. Did this kit include a second cooling fan for the engine compartment fro the condenser, and is that working?

Dougflas on Sun June 27, 2010 8:02 PM User is offline

A few things that you may want to do. When you pull a vacuum, 20 minutes is not long enough. You may reach 29.92 (-30) on your guage but that deos not mean you have even begaun to boil off any moisture. only a micron guage will tell you that. Pull your vacuum for at least a couple of hours, perferrably all night long. When you attempt to add your frigerant, you need to purge your hoses before you open the manifold hand wheels. CVonnect your refrigerant to the middle hose (yellow normally), turn on the frig valve at the can. Next loosen the hose fitting at the manifold and let some frigerant escape, close the hose connection. Now add your refrigerant.

Where did you connect the sensing bulb for the txv? This is important to position it as shown. Make sure it is tightly secured and wrapped with the prestolite tape. Do not position the bulb at the bottom of the tubing. The sensing bulb for the cycling switch needs to be in the proper place also.

Make sure the drier is connected in the proper direction. If you still have high pressures, mist the condenser with a water hose. If the pressures drop dramatically, you need more airflow across the condenser.

Test the system with the rpms at 1200 to 1500, vehicle out of the direct sun. Give the vehicle 15 minutes to stabilize.

TRB on Sun June 27, 2010 8:08 PM User is offlineView users profile

Do you have the capillary tube form the expansion valve attached to the suction tubing coming off the evap? Should also be wrapped with the black tar tape most kit suppliers use! The refrigerant cans you are using is only R134a and nothing else aka super special sealer or cooling additive?

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vwdave33 on Sun June 27, 2010 8:52 PM User is offline

thanks for your help guys....I did what was suggested and misted condenser with water....head pressure on high dropped from 225-250 to 150 psi....measured air from vents and it dropped to 57F....previously it was 78-80F. it appears the condenser isnt staying cool enough. which is what would explain why i have to drive on freeway 20 miles to get it cold. i installed the txv sensing bulb on line opposite line txv is installed on...its the bottom tube from evap...the txv is currently on upper evap tube. I also made sure to wrap it and install on side of line, not bottom half. i double checked the drier inlet and outlet and according to instructions its installed correctly. Im kinda in a dilema because i purchased this kit from AMA, its brand new has a fan...the fan is installed blowing out towards front of car just like radiator fan, hopefully thats the correct position? the fan works i see it spinning..still gets hot....this kit was supposed to be designed for a honda civic so im not sure what i can do or what options I have? i noticed in engine caompartment the catalatic converter is very near the compressor and condenser and fan, but this is how it was designed from factory. what options do i have to keep this condenser cool, since the fan supplied with kit isnt doing that? thanks forall the help guys.

TRB on Sun June 27, 2010 9:05 PM User is offlineView users profile

Fan should be working as a puller fan. Han mounted behind the condenser pulling air through. the condenser. Larger line on the condenser is mounted on top correct? ALso make sure no water is getting into the heater core.

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Contact: ACKits.com


Edited: Sun June 27, 2010 at 9:06 PM by TRB

vwdave33 on Sun June 27, 2010 9:11 PM User is offline

yes it seems to suck the air its mounted flat against the condenser, alongside radiator fan....installed same way as radiator fan...flat part is against condenser facing behind itwhen i look through my cars front grill all i see is condenser in other words fan is on other side. larger line coming from compressor is on top of condenser, lower line of condenser goes to drier inlet.

vwdave33 on Sun June 27, 2010 9:14 PM User is offline

how can i keep water from going into heater core and how can i check if it is? i usually pull the temp slider and it has a door that changes direction of heater or ac, but you cant select both. if i move door to heat....i feel heat....if i move to cool it feels like cooler air just not cold.

TRB on Sun June 27, 2010 9:29 PM User is offlineView users profile

Pinching of the rubber heater lines with wise grip pliers usually do the trick for test purposes.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

mk378 on Sun June 27, 2010 9:36 PM User is offline

There is a water control valve on the firewall to shut off the heater fully. It is linked by a mechanical cable to the temperature control mechanism. Very common for the cable to get out of adjustment.

bohica2xo on Sun June 27, 2010 9:40 PM User is offline

If this is really the case:

"the fan is installed blowing out towards front of car just like radiator fan, hopefully thats the correct position?"

Then BOTH of your fans are wired improperly. The air should come through the grille, and exit in the engine compartment. This would explain why freeway testing did not produce better results...

B.

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"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

TRB on Sun June 27, 2010 10:15 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: bohica2xo
If this is really the case:



"the fan is installed blowing out towards front of car just like radiator fan, hopefully thats the correct position?"



Then BOTH of your fans are wired improperly. The air should come through the grille, and exit in the engine compartment. This would explain why freeway testing did not produce better results...



B.

This is correct, fans should be pulling air not pushing it. Simple test is take a sheet of paper and if it gets sucked into the back of the fan you have it wired backward. Paper should blow away from the back of the fan.



-------------------------
When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

vwdave33 on Sun June 27, 2010 10:38 PM User is offline

I know radiator fan is correct....car doesn't overheat at all...also I tried the test you suggested the fan pushes out the back it sucks the paper to front of condenser through grill opening. The heater hose is fine too...no water flows through tube unless u turn temp control then it slides open valve like its supposed too. Thanks for the suggestions. It seems to be the condensers not rejecfting the heat after doing the water mist test....it cooled really well. Not sure what I can do, this was a brand new kit with fan and condenser etc....it should be cooling but its not? Is it designed incorrectly? Guess I should call ama and see what else I can try? Any other suggestions on how I can make this setup work?

TRB on Sun June 27, 2010 11:13 PM User is offlineView users profile

These systems work well and many have been installed over the years. If the fans are working correctly and we can only go by the information being provided. I think either the system is over charged or too much oil has been added. The reason I say this is both the low and high side are just slightly on the high side. Shipping replacement parts without knowing the cause of the issue is just not addressing the problem. This is when I like to have the vehicle in the shop so we can truly determine the nature of the issue. But that can't always be the case so we just need to make sure the data is correct to help determine the nature of the issue.

Hot water shut off valves leak all the time. Just thinking that it is close so no water is getting may not be the case. You need to crimp off the lines to be sure that is not the case.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

vwdave33 on Mon June 28, 2010 2:32 AM User is offline

hey guys I found the problem and fixed it thanks to all your help! it ended up that the condenser fan was going wrong direction....I installed it according to the diagram but it still went backwards, so i switched the ground and positive which in turn changed rotation of motor, but then started having problems with radiator fan not coming on, so i switched it back the way I originally had the wires in the first place and this time it ran the CORRECT way. crazyness...i guess the polarity was switched or something? I now have cool 44F air coming out of the vents, along with lower pressures, since the heat is being rejected! my pressures now on a 88F day are 25 low pressure, 165 high side....I added the full 24 oz of freon as recommended and all is well...I could probably add a few more oz of r134 to bring the low side up some in the range of 19-39, not sure if it would get it colder, but im really happy with a 44F vent air, versus the 80F i had before....anyway I wanted to thank AMA, everyone on this forum, all of you that helped me find the problem! Thank you im much cooler now!

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