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Hydrocarbon Refrigerants

Peter_Coll on Tue September 29, 2009 3:47 PM User is offlineView users profile

Sad but reinforces the point on HC

pippo on Tue September 29, 2009 3:52 PM User is offline

Whats the point on HC........

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Peter_Coll on Tue September 29, 2009 3:59 PM User is offlineView users profile

Perhaps if the 30 cylinders had been proper refrigerant the occupant may not have died.

pippo on Tue September 29, 2009 8:35 PM User is offline

Oh, I get it now. Your point is that if that guy would have been handling industrial bulk chemicals out of a trailer, inferring R134a, he would have been in a safe setting. AND that this would constitute a logical, congruent sequence of events justifying the ban by the EPA for HC?

One of the reasons HC's are not prevalent is the lack of guidelines for their use/storage/dispense in the auto industry. Any loss of life is tragic. Do you realize how dangerous cars are? Do you believe death in any given day in a car is quite remote except for the "other" guy?

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beware of the arrival

TRB on Tue September 29, 2009 11:39 PM User is offlineView users profile

I've never understood the vehicle is dangerous concept when related to flammable refrigerants. If you have heart disease is it wise to continue to eat improper foods and sit on the couch? Why add a flammable refrigerant to this so called dangerous vehicle? No where in the article is the source of the fire mentioned. It is mentioned that having 30 cylinders of flammable refrigerant hindered the firefighters!

Most people do not like to hear about anyone's death. We all should say a little prayer for the family as I'm sure this is very hard on them.

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Peter_Coll on Wed September 30, 2009 5:56 AM User is offlineView users profile

Perhaps I should have explained more.

The fire was caused by extension cords. The person who died was Gary Lindgren, the owner of OZ Technologies. OZ Technologies produced OZ-12 HC refrigerant. Gary and I did not see eye to eye on the subject but none the less as Tim said any death is tragic. The cylinders were OZ-12 and apparently made it more difficult to fight the fire.


TRB...feel free to close or delete this thread.

Thanks,

Peter

HECAT on Wed September 30, 2009 9:58 AM User is offline

Very sad.

Many small businesses are having to do drastic things to reduce themselves to the core, just to survive. But the storage of potentially hazardous materials in bulk at ones home violates all kind of business licensing, building code, fire code, and insurance rules; and also compromises the occupants health and safety. This would be like keeping 30 propane tanks on the front porch.

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TRB on Wed September 30, 2009 10:54 AM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: HECAT
Very sad.



Many small businesses are having to do drastic things to reduce themselves to the core, just to survive. But the storage of potentially hazardous materials in bulk at ones home violates all kind of business licensing, building code, fire code, and insurance rules; and also compromises the occupants health and safety. This would be like keeping 30 propane tanks on the front porch.

I was thinking along the same lines last night.



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pippo on Wed September 30, 2009 3:37 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: TRB
Quote
Originally posted by: HECAT
Very sad.







Many small businesses are having to do drastic things to reduce themselves to the core, just to survive. But the storage of potentially hazardous materials in bulk at ones home violates all kind of business licensing, building code, fire code, and insurance rules; and also compromises the occupants health and safety. This would be like keeping 30 propane tanks on the front porch.



I was thinking along the same lines last night.

Thats kinda what I was trying to get at, TRB. I mean, if the guy stored gasoline similarly, one wouldnt expect to impose irrelevant conclusions about gasoline not being usable as a fuel/stored in our autos. Its how you extract/process/package/label/store/sell/and dispense of any potentially dangerous fluid that makes it relevant to consideration to a particular application.

There is still no perfect refrigerant for cars, unfortunately.......

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beware of the arrival

TRB on Wed September 30, 2009 4:25 PM User is offlineView users profile

Vehicles are designed to use a fuel. When fault is found like with the Pinto and Crown Vic a change is made to make them relatively safe. Adding a flammable refrigerant to a system not designed for it is asking for trouble. Unless you believe all the hype the greenies sling on HC's. One can understand that they have issues and are illegal in the US for automotive vehicles for a reason.

From the information in the link one can't say one way or the other if an HC refrigerant was related to the original fire. But you can take away having that much HC refrigerant around the dwelling hampered the firefighters.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
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Edited: Thu October 01, 2009 at 12:03 AM by TRB

NickD on Wed September 30, 2009 5:20 PM User is offline

All HC refrigerants are heterogeneous that is reason for me not to use them, if one of the gases leak out, and the gases do not combine to form a homogeneous substance, pressures can drastically change resulting in system problems from any where to poor cooling to tripping the high pressure switch. If topping off, how is one to know which gas to add to gain the proper mixture?

It doesn't take a genius to mix propane with butane in near proportions in an attempt to emulate R-12, and it was the demise of R-12 that started all this nonsense. Surprised Al Gore is not screaming about R-134a due to it's enormous global warming potential, but feel he made a fortune by pushing it. But see why he objects to CFC's they caused a hole in his brain.

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