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Electric a/c compressor

David T on Tue September 29, 2009 11:24 AM User is offline

Country of Origin: United States

I am trying to build an electric driven a/c compressor. Any thoughts Thanks Dave

TXAB on Tue September 29, 2009 1:06 PM User is offline

You're going to take an automobile a/c compressor power it with an electric motor? Ok, I'll bite. Why?

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"Don't get stuck on stupid!"
---- Lt. Gen. Russel Honore

David T on Tue September 29, 2009 1:21 PM User is offline

keep car cool when waiting to pick up wife from work. it get hot here in florida.

HECAT on Tue September 29, 2009 2:53 PM User is offline

You would need a great big alternator to supply the power necessary to run a compressor with an electric motor. The engine would need to be running to turn this alternator to supply the power for the electric motor to turn the compressor. I believe I read somewhere that it takes about 17 HP to drive the A/C compressor when operating. The energy required for A/C is not free.

Just idle the engine while waiting on the wife, problem solved.

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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

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ScotY on Sat October 03, 2009 1:55 AM User is offlineView users profile

Don't hybrids use electric compressors? Just guessing...don't really know. I guess they do have BIG batteries though.

subash on Sat October 03, 2009 3:35 AM User is offline




Electric Compressor


In 2003, DENSO launched the world’s first small, light-weight electric compressor for hybrid electric vehicles. The electric compressor provides comfortable air conditioning even during “idle” stops (when the engine shuts down to save fuel and emissions). This maintains cabin comfort while significantly reducing fuel consumption.




Benefits and Features

* Small size and light weight
o By adopting a newly developed motor winding method, DENSO achieves 30 percent size reduction and 53 percent weight reduction of the electric compressor compared to traditional electric compressors, providing more space in the vehicle and further improving fuel consumption.
o High revolution speed (7500 rotations per minute), regardless of the engine speed, reduces the displacement (amount of refrigerant discharged from the compressor per one rotation) to 18 cm3, allowing the compressor to be more compact.
* High efficiency and quiet operation
o The electric compressor combines a scroll compressor and a DC brushless motor. The optimized scroll form and advanced motor control technology improves efficiency and reduces noise and vibration.
* Quick starting
o DENSO’s advanced motor control technology enables the electric compressor to start at a high revolution speed as soon as the air conditioning system is turned on.



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NickD on Sat October 03, 2009 5:32 AM User is offline

Don't have to build one, just buy one, took a great deal of effort to design a 7,500 rpm compressor operated by a brushless DC motor.



All you need to add is about 100 lithium cells in series and a means to charge them or swipe Ni-cads from a Prius.

I spent a lot of time in Florida, hated AC, buildings were stuffy and played hell with my sinuses, heat wasn't that bad, get use to it. What you don't want to do is to get a job wearing a Mickey Mouse outfit at Disneyworld.

HECAT on Sat October 03, 2009 6:06 AM User is offline

The Prius has high voltage batteries that can run an electric drive without the gas engine running. When the battery power is depleted the gas engine runs not only to move the vehicle, but operates as a generator to recharge the batteries. The high voltage electric motor driven compressor was introduced to provide consistent A/C while operating in either gas or electric drive modes. Funny thing is that the draw of this electric driven compressor is so high that the selection of Max A/C will command the gas engine (generator) to run all the time to keep up with the voltage draw.

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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

NickD on Sat October 03, 2009 7:16 AM User is offline

It's good for a couple of minutes. Even running the AC with a gasoline engine at idle is the worse thing you can do to your car, takes it's toll on all that plastic and rubber under the hood. Just roll down the windows, and kill the engine, been doing that for a zillion years now, and still alive.

The GM EV had it's range cut over in half by using the AC, think I would rather sit in the shade of that car with the windows down than walk in the hot sun for 80-90 miles. Can also move up to Wisconsin.

HECAT on Sun October 04, 2009 8:50 AM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: NickD
It's good for a couple of minutes. Even running the AC with a gasoline engine at idle is the worse thing you can do to your car, takes it's toll on all that plastic and rubber under the hood. Just roll down the windows, and kill the engine, been doing that for a zillion years now, and still alive.



The GM EV had it's range cut over in half by using the AC, think I would rather sit in the shade of that car with the windows down than walk in the hot sun for 80-90 miles. Can also move up to Wisconsin.

I understand (I lived in ND) and can picture how enjoyable it must be in WI to take a summer lunch break and sit in a vehicle under a shade tree with the windows down. I know you have been here, and this is rarely possible in the "steamy" south.

The range of any fuel or no fuel drive efficient technology will be affected by the energy demanding features of "creature comforts". This why the "Hypermiler" is rolling slowly on the hottest day of summer with the windows down and sweat pouring from his brow. He is knowingly making this "creature comfort" sacrifice for the economics, and some would say to make a "statement".

Personally, I will idle with max air on understanding the additional heat and strain I am putting on the sacrificial vehicle components, as well as the monetary and environmental costs. I will spend my money to "consume" and enjoy certain "creature comforts" that are available to me, even if I do leave a few in the junk yard and a little "footprint" from the trip.

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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

mk378 on Sun October 04, 2009 9:52 AM User is offline

True hypermilers think that opening the windows also makes you guzzle gas. They drive in the summer with the windows CLOSED and the A/C off.

NickD on Sun October 04, 2009 11:50 AM User is offline

With my instant mpg gauge, didn't see any difference with a window down, but does make a huge difference driving up a hill, accelerating from a stop sign, and driving into a strong headwind. Also using that ethanol added fuel crap makes a negative difference, but they all claim it does not. Like up to a 20% difference in fuel economy.

Olds442 on Tue October 06, 2009 1:08 AM User is offline

Modern compressors don't use anywhere near 17 HP.

bohica2xo on Tue October 06, 2009 3:48 AM User is offline

A V7 compressor soaks up 9kW at full output - about 12 horsepower. A 12v, 12hp electric motor will be kind of large...

Even at the impossible 100% effeciency, 9kW @14.5v is 600+ amps to run the electric motor. Just not practical.

B.

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"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

fasto on Thu October 08, 2009 1:54 PM User is offline

A friend used to own a small airplane with electric air conditioning. The plane was a Commander Aircraft 115. The cabin is quite small, like most single engine aircraft, probably around Toyota Yaris size.
The airplane had two 28V, 100A alternators. Both were needed to run the A/C. The electrical draw increased by around 140A at 28V with the A/C on. The A/C had to be OFF for takeoff. I flew the plane once with the A/C on, it was quite effective.
He now owns a Mooney with electric air conditioning, but I haven't flown that airplane.
Aftermarket electric air conditioners are available for several different airplanes, including the Cessna 182. I believe they cost around $9000 not including installation; at least as of five or so years ago. Perhaps this would be a suitable starting point for the electric compressor search?

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