Engine Size: 1.8
Refrigerant Type: 134a
Country of Origin: United States
Hello, this is my first post to these forums. I've been reading lots of threds to hopefully get the info I needed for my project but can't quite seem to track down what I'm looking for. I was trying to avoid asking easily found questions, but gave in and signed up for an account.
Here is what I have. I have a 1988 VW Fox wagon. A/C was optional in these cars and mine did not come with it. I'm sure everyone remembers when you could have the dealer install A/C for you in many cars that didn't come factory with it. The dealership would order a kit from VW or whatever the make of the car was and their mechanics would put it in. Last summer I tracked down such a kit made specifically for my car. It's been on a shelf for quite a few years but it's completely new. All the hoses still have their caps on the ends, the condensor is new, the evap is new, the drier is new and so is the compressor. I even started to unscrew a cap on the compressor and heard a hiss. I quickly tightened it knowing that this was a good sign. The nitrogen hasn't leaked out in all these years.
I'm currently in the process of installing it into my car. Of course this kit was designed to run on R12, but I'm obviously going to use 134a. Since everything is brand new I don't have to worry about the old R12 oil right? One question I have is about the compressor. Would it have come with oil in it already? If so would I need to drain that out and put different oil in it? If so how much and what type? Other than the fittings what else would I need to do to make it ready for 134? I do have a 134 conversion "kit" which is of course a bag of the viton o-rings. I plan to assemble it with these O rings while I install it. I understand the basics of A/C but don't know many details. I'm willing to do as much as needed to do this the right way. I know that if I take the time and don't take any short cuts this system will prob work for a while to come.
Thanks in advance for any help you guys can provide. I'm sure I'll be buying a few things from AMA to help keep the forums going...it will prob be the least I can do.
I think you should drain out the oil (if any) from the compressor and measure it. If no oil present, add correct amount of R134a oil. If it had R-12 mineral oil in it, add maybe 6 ounces of R134a oil, work the compressor several turns, then drain the oil. Then do that again and drain again. Then add back the correct amount of R134a oil.
Ok cool...good start. Wouldn't there be some residual R12 oil left on the surfaces of the inside of the pump? How would I get that out if so? Heck I don't even know how to drain the pump. I installed it into the car before I thought about the oil. It's not too hard to pull back out. Would posting the numbers from the side of the box help anyone here. I know it's a denso pump.
Edit: I guess I didn't thoroughly read what you wrote at first. Adding 134 oil working it around then draining it many times over should get out the r12oil? Is there a more sure fire way? How thorough does this process need to be I.E. how much of the r12 stuff does it take to mess things up? I'm willing to do what ever it takes to get every drop of the old r12 out of there.
I've read some about using mineral spirits and other ways to clean out AC systems. Is this used mostly for systems that have become contaminated with pump interenals due to wear?
Like I said at first. I'm willing to take the time to make sure this systems is as clean and moisture free as possible so I don't have to mess with it for a while.
Edited: Mon August 17, 2009 at 11:04 PM by Dubbinchris
Just working through the proper 134 oil will remove enough of the r12 oil that any residual that might be left on components in the pump will be so negligible that it will not make a difference. That process is as efficient as a way as is possible/practical.
Ok cool, thanks!
Now another question. What about all these lines that have been sitting around for years. They look brand new and have caps on them...but the caps aren't as substantial as the ones on the compressor. Should I flush these out with something before assembly or putting the normal vacuum on tbe whole system will cover it?
What exactly will be the proper oil for my new compressor? Is it simply 123a oil or is it more compressor dependant? Would the pump part number help?
I would just use it. Who knows how long those A/C hoses from the parts stores have been sitting on the shelf. I work at napa, and i see some reaaaaaalllly dusty parts....I woudlnt worry about all that, put it together, vacuum it and charge it.
1990 Pontiac Turbo Grand Prix
1990 Pontiac 6000 LE V6
Both have R12 A/C
I wasn't so much concerned about the condition of the hose per se and they seem pretty good to me. I'm more wondering if there might be something inside of them that would need flushed out.
Also can someone tell me a little bit about the 134 oil I would need to get? I did read a recent write up about two different kinds of PAG oil that was interesting. Water really dissolved into one while water didn't dissolve as much into the other. This site has a lot of good info, it's just sometimes tough to decipher for a noob like me.
This is a no-brainer. Fill the system with R12.
It will be a dog if you try to convert it, and it does not hold a lot of refrigerant.
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.
I'm sure you guys will cringe at this idea, but do these look halfway decent? Guess you missed this at the top of each page! Auction links are prohibited on this forum. Moderator Edit
I've seen some really cheap stuff out there, like $50 for the manifold and the vac pump that run off your compressor. Harbor freight also sells this stuff and I'm sure it's complete junk. I'm sure I will do some A/C work in the future but not much so it's tough to justify spending a ton on a really nice manifold and vac. Do you think the link I posted get the job done?
Edited: Tue August 18, 2009 at 9:58 AM by Automotive Air Conditioning Information Moderator
If you go with R134, buy a new drier. The older r12 driers did not contain the proper desicant and will cause problems you don't want to experience.
I know that typically when changing from r12 to 134a you need to buy a new drier, but I always thought it was b/c you couldn't get all the old oil out of the old drier. If I buy a new drier for my car, although brand new it will still be designed for the r12 right? The one I'm putting in has never been used, or doesn't that make a difference since it was technically made a while ago? I wonder even if I order a new one from somewhere if it won't have been just sitting on their shelf for years???
Edited: Tue August 18, 2009 at 6:39 AM by Dubbinchris
The air-driven vacuum pumps are not suitable, they don't develop a full vacuum and the air left behind will impair performance. Don't use the NOS drier, it may be wet already from any slight leakage in the caps while it was sitting around and also you don't know if it's R-134a compatible. New driers are OK for either R-12 or R-134a. Use ester based (POE) oil and you can use either refrigerant without changing the oil. I think POE oil only comes in 100 viscosity, further simplifying the choice. If you used PAG oil you would need to remove every trace of it from all parts before reverting to R-12; R-12 reacts with PAG and forms a sludge. For about $20 you can take the EPA 609 test online and be certified to buy R-12 legally. There are lots of places selling it. Always pressure test a R-12 system with some other gas first to be reasonably sure there are no leaks before charging the R-12.
Edited: Tue August 18, 2009 at 8:27 AM by mk378
Well you already posted one Auction link! So it would not be hard to use it again and search R12. Don't see where bohica2xo belittled anyone.
That's using R12! Yes it cost $25.00 to do the open book test and then about $30.00 a can for refrigerant. To me that makes the most sense. Let some of the comments slide of your shoulder as Brad in his way is just trying to say don't mess with using R134a on this project. Ask why and I'm sure he will expand on the subject.
If you end up supporting us in the future. Thanks as it is what keeps this site operating.
The S.O. bought a brand new 90 Fox about 2 weeks before we met. The A/C cooled like crap right off the bat. I agree with Brad, don't use 134 in this car unless you live on the Oregon/Washing coast and never drive it inland. The 90 barely kept up with ambients in the high 80s, especially if the car was parked in the sun.
Using R-12 borrow his manifold, R-22 manifolds are suitable for R-12 and the same mineral oil is used with both. The typical small HVAC manifold will attach directly to the fittings on your car (if they are both the same size. If you have a small high side fitting you will need an adapter for that).
If you buy R-12 in 12 oz cans you will need a can tapper, either a side tapper or a R-12 top tapper (which is different from a 134a top tapper)
They make an adapter so you can attach a R-134a manifold to his pump.
I gave you good advice. You fired back with this gem:
MK378.....thanks for that info. Very helpful! I guess it looks like I'm going to try and head down the R12 road if I can. Do you guys think I should still buy a new drier or not? Would a new one be better than a NOS one that's been around for some years?
We've updated our forums!
Click here to visit the new forum
Copyright © 2016 Arizona Mobile Air Inc.