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Hose sizes for foreign cars Pages: 12

MikeC5 on Sun August 09, 2009 6:49 PM User is offlineView users profile

Year: 85
Make: Porsche
Model: 944
Engine Size: 2.5 l
Refrigerant Type: was R-12
Country of Origin: Germany

I'm planning to retrofit from R-12 to R-134a and think it would be prudent to use the proper barrier hose. Do foreign cars use different hose sizes? I was looking at this site in regards to measuring and nothing is mentioned concerning metric hose sizes.
Edit: Moderator
Any help appreciated.


Edited: Sun August 09, 2009 at 10:02 PM by Automotive Air Conditioning Information Moderator

MikeC5 on Tue August 11, 2009 12:40 PM User is offlineView users profile

So nobody here works on European cars?

FishFinger on Tue August 11, 2009 12:51 PM User is offline

As far as I know they generally use regular sized hoses. My Peugeot certainly does anyway - and if anyone were going to be awkward and different it would be the French.

bohica2xo on Tue August 11, 2009 3:09 PM User is offline

To answer your original question, your refrigerant lines should be standard diameters...

But barrier hose uses a different type of fitting to keep from cutting into the liner (the actual "barrier").

Some of us do work on imports. Having said that, I would not touch a Porsche 134a conversion with a 3.8m pole. Keep that car R12.

B.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

MikeC5 on Tue August 11, 2009 5:03 PM User is offlineView users profile

I have talked to other 944 owners who have had successful conversions to R-134. The early cars like mine are not climate control so that keeps it a bit simpler than later model Porsches. It uses a Sanden compressor and plain old expansion valve just like many other AC systems out there. This is also a learning project for me; I can take my sweet time and research it as long as I want. As for the fittings, does everyone simply buy brand new R-134 lines when doing a conversion? Even if that were an option for me, it would be prohibitively expensive. Is there no way to put new barrier hoses on the old fittings?

MikeC5 on Tue August 11, 2009 5:06 PM User is offlineView users profile

Oh and what FishFinger said certainly makes sense.. (my wife is French so I know too well)....

Cussboy on Tue August 11, 2009 8:36 PM User is offline

I would also vote to stay R-12, for both performance and for lower cost, changing over will cost more overall. You have been warned.

MikeC5 on Tue August 11, 2009 10:28 PM User is offlineView users profile

O.K. maybe I better consider the R12 option. It would certainly be easier. My AC gages are for R-134 though. But pressure is pressure right? As long as they go on the fittings they should be O.K. I would think. And the hose set uses adapters for the R-134 connection. I believe the hose end fittings are ACME...

MikeC5 on Fri August 14, 2009 1:08 PM User is offlineView users profile

O.K. so I managed to secure the necessary R-12. I'm still unsure what to do about the original hoses. They are 25 years old so I don't think it wise to put the AC back together without new hose. But I simply can't afford to buy complete new lines. I want to replace just the hoses by carefully cutting off the crimp. Is there R-12 style hose available that will work with the existing barbs on the fittings? I realize R-134 compatible hose would be less leak prone but as bohica2xo mentioned it shouldn't be used with R-12 fittings.

Prospeeder on Fri August 14, 2009 9:58 PM User is offlineView users profile

I say use the same hoses. If they all look ok and dont look like theyve leaked before or havent rubbed antyhing, use em. Some shops may be able to remove the crimps and replace the rubber portions of the hose

-------------------------
1990 Pontiac Turbo Grand Prix
1990 Pontiac 6000 LE V6
Both have R12 A/C

NickD on Fri August 14, 2009 11:07 PM User is offline

Read Tim's post in the off topic section on how to make your own hoses. I was going a little crazy at first with all these metric brake and fuel line sizes, but my taps and dies told me the threads were the same, my micrometer told me, still following the fractional tubing sizes but are using miscalculated metric sizes. Only difference I really noted was the hex on the fittings, now that is metric. 1/2" won't fit, 9/16" too loose, so have to use a 13 mm kind of thing.

MikeC5 on Sat August 15, 2009 9:24 PM User is offlineView users profile

Thanks. I'd prefer to use the orignal fittings rather than adding another joint in the line be it weld or braze.

NickD on Sun August 16, 2009 5:51 AM User is offline

Not a question of preference, if you plan on using your original fittings, should use the original hose as well as the original refrigerant and the original oil. But it seems somebody changed the refrigerant, that required a different type of oil, the required a compatible hose, that required a different kind of barbed connector. Least with these adapters, you can use part of your original fittings. One change, leads to another, than another, than, another.

We live in a crazy world, our EPA wants you to buy a new vehicle, then in a couple of years, wants that vehicle off the road because they can't make up their mind, that is, even if they have a mind.

MikeC5 on Sun August 16, 2009 9:45 AM User is offlineView users profile

I would use original R-12 type hose if I could find it. It seems if you want new hoses you have no choice but the barrier hose. So maybe the weld/braze-on fitting is the best option to allow you to re-use the (in my case) hard lines with complex bends. I've never brazed before, is it similar to soldering with a torch?

Prospeeder on Sun August 16, 2009 3:35 PM User is offlineView users profile

The barrier hose will work fine with R12 system...most GM cars in the late 80's already used barrier hoses before R12 was phased.

-------------------------
1990 Pontiac Turbo Grand Prix
1990 Pontiac 6000 LE V6
Both have R12 A/C

MikeC5 on Sun August 16, 2009 5:17 PM User is offlineView users profile

I do understand that the barrier hose is better than the old R-12 hose. It's just the incompatibility between barrier hose and the old R-12 barbed fittings that is making this more difficult. It looks like I have no choice but the cut off the old fittings from the lines and braze on bead lock fittings if I want to use new hose. Some of the metal lines in this car are long and complicated bends and I just can't afford to buy new hose assemblies.

TRB on Sun August 16, 2009 6:25 PM User is offlineView users profile

While it is best to use a bead lock style fitting with barrier hose. Many times the older barb fittings have to be used. In my opinion one should be more concerned with the right style of crimp with barrier hose.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

MikeC5 on Mon August 17, 2009 2:53 PM User is offlineView users profile

O.K. thanks TRB. Since I was also hoping to do this without removing the long lines (many obstacles with engine in car), I was trying to avoid welding/brazing. It seems like the crimper is small enough to do its thing in-situ.

NickD on Mon August 17, 2009 3:44 PM User is offline

It's suppose to be fun to remove stuff from a classic car and rebuild it, but strictly for self-satisfaction, won't get a dime for your labor, but hopefully will get back what you paid for parts. Also a good way to get away from a nagging wife, LOL, my excuse as well in the past, can do that, but can't go to a bar where other guys with that interest used the same reason. Can always find clubs you can join, least around here.

Also have a home built aircraft club in town, that's a little bit too much, can take 10,000 hours with most of it paperwork to please the FAA, have to document every rivet you use plus more paperwork that it's all FAA approved stuff. And when you are done, would be darn lucky to get back 20% of the parts you put into it, that happens after having it for a couple of years, get interested in something else.

MikeC5 on Tue August 18, 2009 8:48 AM User is offlineView users profile

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy working on my cars. If an engine needs to be pulled to do a clutch or what-have-you, I do it. But I'm not going to remove it just to have access to remove AC lines.... this AC re-install is going to be a mostly winter project so I'll have plenty of time to work out the details....

TRB on Wed August 19, 2009 10:28 AM User is offlineView users profile

B, I moved this link to the Tips section for future reference.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

bohica2xo on Wed August 19, 2009 2:41 PM User is offline

Mike:

My previous post got lost in the link transplant - sorry about that. We can start with the new link:

Barrier hose on old fittings

For things like the hard lines on your car it is possible to use barrier hose on the old fittings. You will need to carefully cut the crimp sleeve off, and either use a new crimp sleeve or a cross bolt clamp as outlined in that post. For fittings that are of a standard nature, your best choice is to buy new fittings from Tim & replace them. Tim sells a great crimp tool at a very fair price. They have a lot of fittings & hose as well.

To remove a hose from a crimped fitting without destroying the fitting:



. Be careful with the saw, don't nick the fitting.



. Saw down as close as you can without damage



. Break the last bit of crimp sleeve by prying the cut apart.



. Once the cut breaks, you can use pliers to finish spreading the sleeve



.

There are of course other options. You could cut the lines off, and use Swagelok fittings to adapt to flare fittings.

B.



-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

MikeC5 on Wed August 19, 2009 10:44 PM User is offlineView users profile

Thanks for posting the great photos bohica. This is exactly what I was hoping to do.

MikeC5 on Wed August 19, 2009 10:50 PM User is offlineView users profile

That link is perfect!

MikeC5 on Sun August 30, 2009 12:59 PM User is offlineView users profile

Nick D, I re-read your post saying
"Read Tim's post in the off topic section on how to make your own hoses. I was going a little crazy at first with all these metric brake and fuel line sizes, but my taps and dies told me the threads were the same, my micrometer told me, still following the fractional tubing sizes but are using miscalculated metric sizes. Only difference I really noted was the hex on the fittings, now that is metric. 1/2" won't fit, 9/16" too loose, so have to use a 13 mm kind of thing. "

Are you saying the threads on the 'metric' hose assemblies are not necessarily metric? I'll have to check that out...

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