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First a/c install Pages: 12

Lowcountrydave on Thu May 28, 2009 9:26 PM User is offline

Year: 1991
Make: Toyota
Model: Pickup
Engine Size: 2.4 I-4
Refrigerant Type: R134A
Ambient Temp: 85
Pressure Low: 50
Pressure High: 380
Country of Origin: United States

Ok so this is my first complete a/c install. After driving my truck for 16 years, I've decided to try out some cool air. I'm still a windows guy, me and my dog! After the install and 2 cans of R134A. In the drive, temp dropped to 45 degrees. Seems to range from 45-50 or so. On the lower fan settings it seems to be more consistent temp in the upper 40's. The next day I took it for an hour drive. I had to turn it on the lowest setting. Doesn't seem to take much to cool the standard cab. I noticed on the second day, that the compressor seemed to cut off and on more frequent. Even with 50 for the low pressure. Does this seem normal? In the drive this evening the amb temp was around 85. I turned it on high and the temp stayed around 70. Of course I notice the lowest temps at highway speeds. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks Dave

TRB on Thu May 28, 2009 11:01 PM User is offlineView users profile

How's kit is it to begin with. Did you pull a vacuum before adding the 24 ounces of refrigerant? Sounds like you have a leak somewhere but low and high side pressures at idle and 1500 rpm should be posted.

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Lowcountrydave on Fri May 29, 2009 12:36 PM User is offline

Hi TRB,

The kit is AMA16873-2037 - Complete After-Market AC System (AMA16873-2037) from Arizona Air. This site I believe. I pulled a vacuum to -20, seemed to return to 0 after about 15-30 minutes. When I started the truck cold it was idling at 1500 rpms, pressures were: 35 low, 400 high Amb 70 with clutch engaged. When the clutch disengaged, pressures low 50, high 275. Driving around town 40 mph, fan setting on high, cab temp 48 degrees. Highway speeds 65 mph rpms 2500, cab temp ranged from 45-48 degrees, amb 75. At 70 mph rpms 2800, cab temp on low or high seemed to stay around 50 degrees in cab, amb 85. I'm no expert, but I made sure I lubed the o-rings and made good tight connections. The vacuum pump is not the best quality, it came from Harbor freight. My compressor I used to pull the vacuum, wasn't capable of keeping a constant draw. So I would close off the low side manifold when the compressor would start to cycle. Then repeat that process a few times.

Dave

TRB on Fri May 29, 2009 12:56 PM User is offlineView users profile

We lock up the fan clutches on those here in phoenix. It does make a lot more noise but draws a lot more air also. To do this you remove the fan clutch assembly - Remove the blade - remove the 4 screws/bots which hold the two halves together. Once apart drop 3 5/16th lock washers in the flat surface in a triangle pattern and reinstall everything.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

mk378 on Fri May 29, 2009 1:32 PM User is offline

The venturi pumps leave quite a bit of air behind in the system, which is raising your high side pressure. It would be good to evacuate with a mechanical pump and recharge with new refrigerant. As the vacuum didn't hold, there's almost certainly a leak somewhere. I also agree that more condenser fan would help a lot at idle.

TRB on Fri May 29, 2009 1:50 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: mk378
The venturi pumps leave quite a bit of air behind in the system, which is raising your high side pressure. It would be good to evacuate with a mechanical pump and recharge with new refrigerant. As the vacuum didn't hold, there's almost certainly a leak somewhere. I also agree that more condenser fan would help a lot at idle.

I missed the Harbor freight pump. Agree with mk378, time to reclaim refrigerant and use proper tools to evacuate and recharge. But we still lock up all these Toyota 4 cyl fan clutches in the hell hole known as Phoenix.



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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Lowcountrydave on Fri May 29, 2009 2:00 PM User is offline

Hey mk378,

Just wondering, what makes you think there is a leak? Wouldn't the pressures drop and not recover as the freon escaped? How expensive is a mechanical pump you are talking about? Because the vacuum dropped back to 0, is that why you believe its leaking? I was thinking maybe it equalized back to 0, but don't really know.

TRB, I will keep that in mind about the fan clutch. Not sure I want to do the mod just yet. I figure get the system vacuum properly and then if it still needs the clutch modded all do it.

Dave

JJM on Sat May 30, 2009 3:31 PM User is offline

When you close the wheels on the manifold gauge, the vacuum should hold all night if the system is truly tight. Plus 20" Hg is nowhere near enough vacuum - you need to pull at least 29.5" on the gauge (preferably 500 microns if you have a micron gauge).

Once the system is tight, vaccumed down and charge to spec, it will cool like a champ for many year to come.

Joe

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: www.ACKits.com



Lowcountrydave on Tue June 02, 2009 3:11 PM User is offline

Ok here is an update on my a/c install. Using your suggestions, I took my truck to the dealership. I didn't want to release the freon into the air. I told them it was an aftermarket kit, which the instructions say it holds 24 oz. They reclaimed the freon, then pulled a vacuum on the system. Good news * NO LEAKS* Yea for me right! Ok so the tech told me it had too much freon in the system. He said there was 1 1/2 lbs in the system. He put 1 lb freon in and test drove around town. Now he says he was able to get it cooling around 40 degrees.

I picked up the truck and proceed to do my own experimenting. At home in the driveway, these are the readings.

1000 RPM 35 Low 225 High Amb 88 F 56 @ vent
1500 RPM 25 Low 200 High Amb 88 F 52 @ vent

Compressor disengages for 20 seconds

Compressor engages for 1 min 22 seconds

After a few cycles vent temps drop to 50, 48

Haven't tested it past 48 degrees in drive.

What do you think of the pressures? I would think its need more freon. Isn't 1 pound 16 oz? I would think it is 8 oz low.
They suggested an electric fan. They said these trucks were poor cooling from the factory, due to not enough air flow.

Waiting on your replys, before I make my next move.

Thanks Dave

TRB on Tue June 02, 2009 4:20 PM User is offlineView users profile

24 ounce = 1.5 pound

We will not be making any progress on this until we know we have a proper amount of refrigerant in the system. I sure hope they are not adding oil each time they play with this also as that could cause a big issue. Pressures are high and even more so if it is under charged with 16 ounces of refrigerant. These systems work great and are not the same as an OEM system. Lock the fan up before trying to add an electric fan!

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Contact: ACKits.com


Edited: Tue June 02, 2009 at 10:53 PM by TRB

Lowcountrydave on Tue June 02, 2009 10:38 PM User is offline

Hey TRB,

Could I weigh an empty R 134A can and then weigh a new can to know how much freon is actually in that particular can? I don't believe they added oil. Doesn't say they did anyways.

Dave

TRB on Tue June 02, 2009 11:00 PM User is offlineView users profile

Most small cans weight 12 ounces and unless you use the miracle in a can product, it should be all R134a refrigerant. If you plan to add some refrigerant be sure to bleed the gauges/lines or you will add air to the system. I just don't know why someone would add less when they were told to a system takes X amount. Do these techs look up the factory specifications and say what the heck I'll only put in half today when they are dealing with an OEM system? You do have the capillary tube attached firmly to the suction line on the evap and wrapped with the tar type tape that was provided?

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Contact: ACKits.com


Edited: Tue June 02, 2009 at 11:01 PM by TRB

Lowcountrydave on Tue June 02, 2009 11:46 PM User is offline

Hey TRB,

Copy you on the bleeding the line, so air isn't introduced into the system. This may be a dumb question but.... the capillary tube is attached to the expansion valve? I'm assuming the suction line is the line that valve is inline with? If so I did wrap it and cover with that tar tape. If this is correct, does the entire capillary tube (looks like a copper wire) need to be covered, or just the amount of wire that reaches back to the suction line?

Thanks for the patience also.

Dave

TRB on Wed June 03, 2009 12:15 AM User is offlineView users profile

Coil part attached to the suction line is correct. If not it will provide improper performance and readings. I'm here to help the best I can. I just get annoyed at OE techs when they think an aftermarket system plays by the same rules as an OE. large line on condenser is mounted on top correct? I'm just asking these questions to eliminate possible issues.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Lowcountrydave on Wed June 03, 2009 12:31 AM User is offline

I know what you mean about the techs. I would have preferred to be present while he reclaimed, vac, and charged it. This is the reason I don't normally take any vehicles to a garage. I just don't trust them to do what I actually want them to do. I turn my own wrenches and have since I was 13 and wanting to know how something worked. I will check in the morning about the large line on top. I went by the diagram and its shows both hoses going through a square hole in the sheet metal. The two lines are different diameters. One line from the condenser goes to the dryer and attaches on the fitting that says (IN) correct?

Dave

TRB on Wed June 03, 2009 12:56 AM User is offlineView users profile

It's not all techs so I can't paint with a wide brush! Many do a very good job but many also don't understand the difference between and OE system and an aftermarket!

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newton5 on Wed June 03, 2009 1:39 AM User is offlineView users profile


". the capillary tube is attached to the expansion valve? I'm assuming the suction line is the line that valve is inline with?

Tim, it sounds like he has the cap tube attached to the evaporator inlet line unless I'm misreading.

Lowcountrydave on Wed June 03, 2009 9:49 PM User is offline

Hey Newton5,

The expansion valve has the copper wire on the end correct?

Which line is the expansion valve attached to?

Because I have the copper wire wrapped around the same line the expansion valve is connected to.

Is this incorrect?

If so may be my problem.....

I replaced the fan schroud also, it was missing a section, also replaced the fan clutch. Clutch wasn't feeling tight as it did when I first bought it.

Dave

TRB on Wed June 03, 2009 10:00 PM User is offlineView users profile

Yep we have an issue here!

Coil wire needs to be attached to the suction line which is the large line that the valve is not attached to itself. Needs to be attached before the fitting joint so it can read the evap core return temp not the fitting/hose temp.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Lowcountrydave on Wed June 03, 2009 10:12 PM User is offline

Good job Newton5!!! I owe you a pizza or something! Ok so if I get some time tomorrow I will undo my screw up, hehe. Is the tar tape reusable? Or does it harden after first installation? Where can I find tar tape if needed?

Dave

TRB on Wed June 03, 2009 10:22 PM User is offlineView users profile

It will harden over time but you might be able to remove it so it can be reused. If not you should be able to find a similar insulation tape at Home Depot. We can always mail out some if needed also.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Lowcountrydave on Thu June 04, 2009 12:51 PM User is offline

Hey TRB,

I checked on the capillary tube/wire. It was wrapped to the line opposite the expansion valve. But may not have been applied correctly or enough wire wrapped.Do you work for this website, that I could get in touch with you? Discuss my a/c bye phone?

Dave

TRB on Thu June 04, 2009 12:55 PM User is offlineView users profile

You don't need to wrap the wire around the suction line. Just have the coil part of the capillary tube attached firmly to the suction line it self. You can contact any of our staff via the contact numbers listed on the main website or your invoice.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Lowcountrydave on Thu June 04, 2009 5:41 PM User is offline

Hey TRB,

I had the wire wrapped, but the coil wasn't making contact with the suction line. I resolved that issue. New Tar tape applied, temps as following:

1000 rpm 38 low 225 high 77amb @ vent 64 in driveway
1500 rpm 27 low 200 high 77amb @ vent 62
2000 rpm 25 low 200 high 77amb @ vent 56
22 low 192 high 77amb @ vent 54
23 low 195 high 77amb @ vent 54
------ add freon------ Maybe 6 oz 1/2 can

1500 rpm 30 low 212 high 77amb @ vent 54
2000 rpm 26 low 196 high 77amb @ vent 52

----- compressor off-----

40 low 125 high @ vent 50

TRB on Thu June 04, 2009 5:53 PM User is offlineView users profile

Spray some water on the condenser and see what the readings are then. If you have the proper amount of refrigerant in the system and everything hooked up correctly I still think you have a air flow issue. Your low side is high for our aftermarket system.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

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