Engine Size: 2.2L
Refrigerant Type: R12
Country of Origin: United States
The original compressor on my 92 Cavalier is leaking fluid from the body seal. I plan on having the current R12 reclaimed, replacing the compressor, accumulator, OT, and install all new O-rings and stay with R12. The system still currently works fine and is still very cold. My question are these.
1. Does this system still need to be flushed out since the compressor is still working fine and I'm staying with R12?
2. I know this system requires 8 ounces of mineral oil. I have lost some oil due to the leaking compressor. It usually leaves a couple of drops on the carport each time its driven so I won't be able to get an accurate amount if I drain the compressor.
3. How much oil is usually left in the accumulator, condensor, evaporator, and lines?
4. I've seen some of the pros on this site not advocating flushing if you don't have a contaminated system. In that case, how do you know the correct amount of oil to add back into the system? Is the exact amount of oil critical to good performance?
5. If I need to flush the system, is compressed air the preferred method of getting all of the flush out? I've used it in the past but it seems like I have read here that its not the preferred way. All I have is a flush gun and cannot afford the HECAT flush system at this time.
Since the price of R12 is pretty expensive and I don't have a reclaiming machine, I want to make sure I do this right the first time.
Thanks for any advice and input.
3. A few ounces in each
4a. Its an educated guess
Since you want to do it right and only one time, you have two choices...
1. Someone else can provide a recommendation of how much oil to add here or there when not flushing. Since we are not looking at a severe contamination failure here; I am in no way saying this won't work, as a matter of fact it probably will. But I am not the one to give you these guestimates.
2. Since the compressor is a functioning leaker; we are not looking at severe contamination, which at times will require more power and performance than your flush gun can produce. In this case your flush gun will probably provide enough to rinse out the oils. You may have to fill it a number of times to get it done. A long and generous air blow with Dry air to remove the solvent, make sure it is a solvent that will evaporate. When everything is clean and dry or new, you will then know exactly how much oil to add.
Thanks for the reply. It looks like to do this right, I will have to flush the system. I used the flush gun and air compressor on the Cavalier that I converted to R134 and it was not fun. It took forever to get the condensor clean and all of the flush out. I may have to look into getting your flush kit afterall. A few questions about your product.
How much flush is usually required to do a typical car, such as a Cavalier?
Does your flush come out or evaporate faster than the stuff that you can get at the parts store?
What is the biggest benefit of using your system versus the flush guns? More volumn and stronger spraying action?
Will I be able to flush a system faster with less solvent compared to a flush gun?
Thanks for any info.
"It looks like to do this right, I will have to flush the system."
The "oil balancing" procedure is not wrong, but I do agree starting clean and dry will eliminate guesswork.
"I used the flush gun and air compressor on the Cavalier that I converted to R134 and it was not fun. It took forever to get the condenser clean and all of the flush out."
This is a very small "you-fill" aerosol can that is very limited by its volume and solvent velocity; it will take forever to clean a condenser with this tool, if it even can. This is why I stated it may work to flush out oils only, and I would not rely on it having much more capability that that. Trying to use it (empty) in any way to purge out the flush is futile. More on this in the answer to another question below.
"How much flush is usually required to do a typical car, such as a Cavalier?"
This is subjective to each individual failure. The more problems and issues present, the more solvent and effort will be needed. In general, you will need about 1 gallon per automotive component to perform a good liquid flush. If the desired results are not met, you will then need more solvent to flush more.
"Does your flush come out or evaporate faster than the stuff that you can get at the parts store?"
Probably much better than most. There is a lot of "stuff" being offered as A/C flush at the parts stores. It is up to the Tech to know what is being purchased. Solvent based products that are 100% volatile (evaporate) and do no harm to the system materials are the best. I would stay away from ester oil based, as it will not blow out because it will not completely evaporate (this may have been part of your last issue with removal). I would caution against (cannot deny some will work) and recommend you do your own risk assessment regarding the use of the more aggressive, hazardous, and material incompatible products; such as flammability, sterilization, paint removal, etc.
Safe-Flush is designed to fit within the parameters of cleaning performance, removal, toxicity (fumes & VOC's), EPA regulation, and DOT rules. And yes, it did require some give and take from each parameter to create Safe-Flush. It is a low odor, low VOC, synthetic hydrocarbon base (i.e. petroleum distillate) with a small quantity of an organic hydrocarbon solvent (i.e. citrus oil distillate). This forms a solvent cleaner that is 100% volatile (cleans and can be removed with forced air evaporation) yet maintains a low flammability, toxicity, and VOC emission rating which allows for it legal use in California and unregulated DOT shipping.
Removal is addressed with a "full volume" dry air blow. That is a generic air line attached directly to the highest port with limited restriction. The air should be dry (filtered) as to not add air compressor oils or moisture from the air line into the component. Safe-Flush will require about 20-30 minutes to completely dry in most complex multi path components used today (less in some, more in others).
"What is the biggest benefit of using your system versus the flush guns? More volume and stronger spraying action?"
Yes, you got 2 of the 3 necessary physics principles; volume to completely flood and velocity to carry away weighted debris. It also has our proven Patented Pulsating action, which allows for effective scrubbing into corners, crevices, and can defeat the "path of least resistance" rule to clean parallel paths. Even professional equipment that just circulates cannot do that.
"Will I be able to flush a system faster with less solvent compared to a flush gun?"
Faster, yes; less solvent, probably not. The features (volume, velocity, agitation) are designed in to produce the required performance. This tool was designed as an effective alternative to the traditional flush gun whose first identified flaw is volume.
Sorry for such a long winded response...
Thanks for the response. It was very informative. I will order this kit when I return from being out of town in a couple of weeks. I have another quick question just to clarify.
You stated that it would take about 1 gallon of flush for each automotive component. Does this mean 1 gallon for the condensor, 1 gallon for the evaporator, lines, Etc? Or is this one Gallon for the complete car?
Since I still have a functioning system, just leaking, would 1 gallon be sufficient? Thanks again.
From our testing, we are comfortable recommending at least 1 gallon per component. This would be 1 for the condenser and 1 for the evaporator, considering that any hoses will be flushed with one component or the other. So 2 gallons per vehicle (without rear air).
Since you are cleaning a leaker (oil removal, no debris), you may be able to get away with 1/2 gallon per component. Will it be sufficient? It may be, and when you do the final "Pop" test to confirm it is clean, you will be able to answer your own question. Sorry if that seems to be an evasive answer, but to prove it sufficient, that is what I would have to do.
Thanks for the response. After looking closer at my condensor, I think I'm just going to replace it. Even though it doesn't leak, it is pretty banged up with a lot of the fins bent over and one place where the radiator had been pushed into it. I bought this car wrecked two years ago and its a miracle that the condensor didn't leak. The inlet and outlet lines to it are bent. This will let me use 1 gallon of flush and negate the need for me to flush the condensor. Thanks again.
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