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Average Labor Rate for your area.

iceman2555 on Tue July 15, 2008 2:34 PM User is offlineView users profile

For the 'wrench turners' out there. In the process of working on a report and would like to gather some info. If possible please supply geographical location and average labor rate for your shop or the shop were you are employed. Also, if information is known about other shop's labor rates, please include that also.
Thanks,

-------------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

TRB on Tue July 15, 2008 7:20 PM User is offlineView users profile

Less than what a doctor charges for their 3 minutes of time.

-------------------------

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CCWKen on Tue July 15, 2008 8:53 PM User is offlineView users profile

-----------Labor Rates:-------------
$50/hr. Standard Labor
$75/hr. If You Watch
$100/hr. If You Help
$150/hr. If You Tried To Do It First



Your work may have been done for you already. Check with your state's Bureau of Labor Statistics. Some break job classes and wages down to a median. Also, just about every "Association" has done the same thing. Some shops have multiple rates depending on the labor class or cost center. What I charge for frame straightening is higher than mechanical or body work but less than machining. Many procedures have a flat charge while others are governed by insurance reimbursement. The first step in determining a labor rate is determining your labor costs and that varies by demographics on a very small scale.

-------------------------
Ken Kopsky

Custom Car Works
"Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools."

chris142 on Tue July 15, 2008 8:53 PM User is offline

I'm in the SoCal desert.

Labor rates vary from $65-$100+ depending on the shop.

We are @ $87.

NickD on Tue July 15, 2008 9:42 PM User is offline

Ha, with my clients, lucky to get dinner and whom I am doing the job for depends whether or not I pay for the parts. But why hourly rates? If it takes three days for a shop to do a job at 40 bucks an hour, where a guy that really knows is stuff charges, say 200 bucks an hour and does it in a hour, better off to go to the later. But I prefer a predetermined quote that is held to, say at a body shop which is just about the only thing I do job out, and that is provided, another guy hit me and his insurance is paying for it.

With my GM truck dealer, wanted a hundred bucks an hour to overhaul with not even an estimate as to how many hours it would take. Found a really good guy that really knows his stuff for a flat fee of $350.00.

But for what it's worth in Central WI, labor rates vary anywhere from 55 to 100 bucks an hour, but people don't want to know that, they want to know how much it will cost to get their car fixed and that includes AC work as well. We have five independents in town that claim to do AC work plus four dealers. Going to any of those shops, wouldn't trust those guys to check the air in my tires, and really know how to feed a pile of BS. None of those guys would last five minutes on this board, so if you really want good work, you have to DIY.

HECAT on Wed July 16, 2008 8:56 AM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: NickD
We have five independents in town that claim to do AC work plus four dealers. Going to any of those shops, wouldn't trust those guys to check the air in my tires, and really know how to feed a pile of BS. None of those guys would last five minutes on this board, so if you really want good work, you have to DIY.

Iceman,

I think that is a very powerful comment, maybe for another study/report.

Does the consumer even care what the hourly rate is, if their competency is suspect?

-------------------------


HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

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Peter_Coll on Wed July 16, 2008 9:12 AM User is offlineView users profile

I think the question is a valid one as are the comments regarding the consumer wanting only the total cost. Every shop has a labor rate to calculate the estimate to the customer. It is true that the job cost is what matters to the customer. I'll take a $200 per hour shop that can do the whole job for $600 over a $50 per hour shop that is charging me $800 total.

iceman2555 on Wed July 16, 2008 11:10 AM User is offlineView users profile

Most...and I stress the 'most' competent shops will have a posted hourly labor rate...heck it is required in many states and again 'most' shop managers/owners are using a base rate per hour.....no matter is they are quoting a 'full' price repair or a hour charge plus part. Often the 'full' price is determined from a history of job performance based on a set hourly rate,plus parts and then an 'average' cost is given to the customer. This are known facts in the industry. The information being requested is to complete a report for a major parts supplier who wishes to use this info for internal policies and procedures.
The statement about "diy'er's" opens an entirely new aspect of the repair. If one has the correct tools....the knowledge to accomplish a given task or the willingness to learn how to accomplish a given task....then by all means go for it. The other side of the coin is that there are a high number of 'diy'er's" who approach repairs...and since we are an A/C orientated site....they approach an A/C repair with no basic knowledge of the system components, a basic knowledge of theory....nor the correct tools and expect to accomplish what many of us have learned over many years of repair work....and of course...those jobs that went 'south'. Those jobs that were great teaching events for us. Unfortunately these 'learning' experiences that the average 'diyer' encounters often results in a serious parts cost escalation for the jobber/supplier. These parts are returned as a warranty or as defective, when in reality the part is not the problem. Heck, we have seen that here....'I've installed three compressors and.............................."
The serious downside of the above statement......in the industry we see the same statement originating from the 'tech/installer' segment of the market. A/C seems to be one of those repairs that attract this....heck...its gotta be the compressor.....install one......problem remains.....double heck...must be that POS of compressor that was purchase @ AZPBORNPADISAP....so back that one goes....another is installed.....and guess what...the problem remains.....another....perhaps a 'tech' call to someone.....and final three compressors down the road.....say.....$500.00 net was wasted because the person had no basic knowledge of the system.....theory....or the correct tools to accomplish the repair.
Ya'll have a great day other there!!!!

-------------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

NickD on Wed July 16, 2008 1:05 PM User is offline

Quote
Heck, we have seen that here....'I've installed three compressors and.............................."

Those weren't Four Season compressors, by any chance. As a member of ARPA for many years, was under the impression that the DIYer was dying in particular with the advent of dem der computers. Was really common to see every hood in the neighbor opened on the weekends in the 50's-early 80's, that is a very rare sight today. Besides the complexity of the automobile, the other reason is that you pointed out, the knowledge, skills, and in particular, the vast number of special purpose tools one has to buy even to do a once simple job.

Yeah, I have returned my share of defective parts, but resellable as they never passed my bench tests before installing them. Junk, a key reason for that junk is many a good rebuilder was put out of business by the IRS claiming cores were valued at retail value, that lawsuit went on for years, but was finally won after many a rebuilder had to close his doors. The EPA also was responsible for demise of many, as the cleaning phase of operation became way too costly. Also noteworthy is that the rebuilders complaining the most about returns were the ones making junk, just sandblasting old parts and putting them back together again, that is not rebuilding.

If I return such a part, I don't get another, and if I have installed that part, sure I can get my money back, but what about my hours of labor? That is not covered under warranty. Using practically all OE parts nowadays for that reason.

Regarding rebuilt parts, many are like trying to reuse a perfectly good aluminum part can because they are made the same way, throwaway I believe is what they call them. The last number I heard about compressors was about 5 million were replaced in the USA per year, about seven years ago. Did meet some of the guys back then, very closed mouth, and a very esoteric field. Ha, did learn that about 98% of CV joints just needed cleaned, new boots, and grease, but wondered why they spend a huge fortune on esoteric grinding equipment for the other 2%. Last time I replaced half axles, was cheaper to buy the entire rebuilt half axle than just the two boot kits so I purchased those rather than getting my hands all greasy.

I did give you are labor rates, practically all new car dealers in town charge 76 bucks an hour, Honda and Toyota in the next largest town charge about 96 bucks an hour.

bohica2xo on Wed July 16, 2008 2:00 PM User is offline

Here in Las Vegas the labor rates are all over the place - and in no way reflect the quality of service.

My neighbor is a retired refrigeration guy. He does cars in his driveway, and I would not let him add oil to my lawnmower. Charging from a 30 pounder with no scale, and if the high side line can't be found he just charges until the accumulator is "good & cold". He charges people the same rate he gets to fix A/C units on houses... 65 bucks an hour. I asked him once about adding oil to a system that was empty, and he said "only the gas gets out of a leak"... Customers supply their own parts, so Iceman's screwed up returns are part of this guy's output. He actually told me about 3 "bad" compressors in one day from AutoZone. Kept sending the customer back for a new part.

We have a guy here in town that specializes in GM A/C. R4's & foreward, no A6 / POA systems. Everybody says he does great work, but is "not cheap". He gets $100.00 per hour shop rate, and tends to replace condensors / hoses, etc. if a compressor came apart. I sent an in-law's car to him, and they are still pleased with the results 2 years later (a nasty evaporator R&R, not a squeak or rattle after it was done).

There is a shop in town with a posted rate of $125.00 /hr. That is to cover all the labor for the next three trips back to try & make it right...

B.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

TRB on Wed July 16, 2008 2:33 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: iceman2555
Most...and I stress the 'most' competent shops will have a posted hourly labor rate...heck it is required in many states and again 'most' shop managers/owners are using a base rate per hour.....no matter is they are quoting a 'full' price repair or a hour charge plus part. Often the 'full' price is determined from a history of job performance based on a set hourly rate,plus parts and then an 'average' cost is given to the customer. This are known facts in the industry. The information being requested is to complete a report for a major parts supplier who wishes to use this info for internal policies and procedures.

The statement about "diy'er's" opens an entirely new aspect of the repair. If one has the correct tools....the knowledge to accomplish a given task or the willingness to learn how to accomplish a given task....then by all means go for it. The other side of the coin is that there are a high number of 'diy'er's" who approach repairs...and since we are an A/C orientated site....they approach an A/C repair with no basic knowledge of the system components, a basic knowledge of theory....nor the correct tools and expect to accomplish what many of us have learned over many years of repair work....and of course...those jobs that went 'south'. Those jobs that were great teaching events for us. Unfortunately these 'learning' experiences that the average 'diyer' encounters often results in a serious parts cost escalation for the jobber/supplier. These parts are returned as a warranty or as defective, when in reality the part is not the problem. Heck, we have seen that here....'I've installed three compressors and.............................."

The serious downside of the above statement......in the industry we see the same statement originating from the 'tech/installer' segment of the market. A/C seems to be one of those repairs that attract this....heck...its gotta be the compressor.....install one......problem remains.....double heck...must be that POS of compressor that was purchase @ AZPBORNPADISAP....so back that one goes....another is installed.....and guess what...the problem remains.....another....perhaps a 'tech' call to someone.....and final three compressors down the road.....say.....$500.00 net was wasted because the person had no basic knowledge of the system.....theory....or the correct tools to accomplish the repair.

Ya'll have a great day other there!!!!

Every word mentioned in this post can also be applied to a shop which claims to know how to repair a/c systems. I get the "I've been doing it this way for 20 years" comment a few times each year. Of course its always the products fault and they expect a new replacement. I would like to work with these companies that will supply a warranty all day. It's at a point now that I hardly even turn in a compressor anymore. AMA just eats the cost to try and keep the customer happy.


-------------------------
When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

iceman2555 on Wed July 16, 2008 3:07 PM User is offlineView users profile

Heck and all I want to know was an average labor rate........ain't this fun !!!!

-------------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

TRB on Wed July 16, 2008 3:15 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: iceman2555
Heck and all I want to know was an average labor rate........ain't this fun !!!!

All you needed to do is search Craigslist buddy!



-------------------------
When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

iceman2555 on Wed July 16, 2008 4:24 PM User is offlineView users profile

Hey...did that...but for some reason all the ones I want to check out all the 'removed notice on them'.....darn.....always a day late and a dollar short.....
TRB, have you heard from Norm....have not seen him here in a while....and call today and was told he was not there .....not the first place...but the other in Fort Worth.


-------------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

TRB on Wed July 16, 2008 5:13 PM User is offlineView users profile

Nope, bet he is out hunting hogs!

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

HECAT on Wed July 16, 2008 5:19 PM User is offline

Well I guess we have learned that...

There are not a lot of flat rate technicians lurking on this forum, as most of the responses came from senior and respected posters.

Nick believes that to do it right one must DIY, and Bohica is smart enough not to work on the in-laws vehicle. LOL

Improper installs are done by all types of technicians in general, from the Dealer to the DIY level.

Compressor returns are being eaten by the compressor manufacturers and or the suppliers in the name of customer satisfaction.

Everyone, myself included, blames the installer.

Some suppliers require filter, dryer, accumulator, o-tube, txv, etc. to be purchased and installed with a compressor; is this the answer?

Some manufacturers are becoming more aggressive at warranty denials, which may be why TRB has decided not to bother; is this the answer?

There is no doubt we all know what the problem is, will we ever develop a solution?

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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

NickD on Wed July 16, 2008 6:44 PM User is offline

It's all that little stuff that adds, I break bolts, dumb idea to put in a soft steel bolt in aluminum, would like to kick someone's butt, but drill them out and retap the holes, and install new bolts. On used stuff find a bunch of broken bolts that were just left that way. Cleaning takes a long time, all holes and bolt threads must be cleaned and oiled for proper torque. And every bolt has to be put back in, even the impossible ones, that takes a bit longer. All gasket surfaces are cleaned and polished with an appropriate sealer whether it be non-hardening Permatex, RTV, Aviation gasket maker, or even aluminum paint, I hate leaks.

Ha, little things upset me, like a missing heater hose bracket on my 88 Supra, went through the work records and learned a dealer adjusted the valves where that bracket had to be moved, called him, he sent me a new one.

I work way too slow do this this professionally, and it doesn't help to be a zillion years old, but get it done, and done right.

bohica2xo on Wed July 16, 2008 9:11 PM User is offline

Hecat:

I quit the flat rate game a long time ago.
As for working on my father-in-law's Buick Land Yacht... there is no way I would touch his car, especially not an evaporator job @ flat rate hours. The R4 in that pig sounded like a maytag full of rocks when he pulled it into our driveway. Compressor/Condensor/Evaporator/Hoses/Accumulator. Got it back the next day, and all has been well since. He was thrilled to get it put back together right, since Canadian Tire had charged him as much once already for a repair that lasted a month.

I still work on vehicles but I only work on hot rods/motorhomes/limos & oddball stuff. I am usually the last guy they call, and it is a screwed up mess when I get there. I get 120 bucks an hour, no flat rate book - in your shop. I don't know what the Coach Shop charges customers per hour, but heavy duty diesel repair does not come cheap. I am an old, grumpy, pain in the butt and do not really care what they think about me. At that price you get all of my skills...

B.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

HECAT on Thu July 17, 2008 9:14 AM User is offline

Nick & Bohica

You both remind me of older guys I have had the many privileges over time to be an apprentice under, and to be mentored by.

There is nothing wrong with being slow, thorough, and meticulous; with a true passion for the attention to details.

I also no longer work on cars for a living, but I still have a passion (obsession, addiction) for my race car/street car hobby; and truly enjoy the R&D projects I can get into here at my business. Honestly, maybe I do not like the cost of R&D so much, but I do enjoy the successful results and developments; you know, the "eureka!" factor.

Keep sharing your knowledge, its very much appreciated and valued by us "dumb kids" (even us older ones).





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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

fonebone on Fri July 18, 2008 3:45 PM User is offline

A great post, folks! I, also, am now a DIY'er, am EXTREMELY selective on doing work for others. It took a long time to realize I was selling myself, and the long years of accumulated knowledge, way too cheap.

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