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Help after retrofit Pages: 12

rdhack on Wed March 26, 2008 8:09 AM User is offline

Year: 1991
Make: Chevy
Model: S-10 Blazer
Engine Size: 4.3L
Refrigerant Type: R134a retrofiit
Ambient Temp: 55
Pressure Low: 0-3
Pressure High: 85
Country of Origin: United States

Here's the story:

Purchased this vehicle that had been parked for 3 years so no recovery had to be done system was completely empty

Removed accumulator/lines/orifice tube & compressor

Flushed evaporator/condenser/lines and compressor with paint thinner and air dryed with compressed air

put about 2 oz oil in compressor and reinstalled ( kind of wished I had put more now)

installed new orifice tube and accumulator and reconnected lines

Pulled vacuum - no leaks.

Installed new 134a fittings ( Made mistake here - - I didnot remove the valve from r12 fitting before screwing on 134a fitting. It still worked but took forever to install the new freon)

Pulled vacuum with venturi pump for about 30 minutes --- system help vacuum for approx 2 hrs so I began to recharge.

Like stated earlier took forever to charge the system because I forgot to remove the needle valve from the original r12 fitting on the accumulator before screwing on the r134a fitting

seemed to cool for a while I thought I was good for a beginner

Compressor stays engaged but accumulator just changes temp slightly cooler no cool air inside vehicle. Compressor gets hot and is slightly noisy.

Now low pressure gauge reads 0-5 psi and even reads vacuum when engine rpm is increased.

High pressure gauge reads about 85 psi

When compressor is not engaged both are about the same 35 psi

Used a retofit charge from parts store -----had interdynamics brand freon & oil

I am pretty stubborn and do not want to take this vehicle to a shop but I realize now I may have to to get the freon recovered if I have to start over.

I think that pretty much covers it. Does anyone have any suggestions about what is wrong? Any help would be greatly appreciated!


Richard

mk378 on Wed March 26, 2008 10:47 AM User is offline

It cooled for a while, now it doesn't, and you have static pressure of 35. Unless it's very cold out, there's a leak. Even after a car has been parked for several years, anytime you find the pressure down to zero that means there's a leak. Unless of course someone has removed the refrigerant on purpose.

Redo the conversion completely. The only thing worth using in the Interdynamics "death kit" is the 3 cans of R134a. Though I think now the kit comes with some additive laden snake oil rather than pure 134a, so don't even use that.

GM Tech on Wed March 26, 2008 12:30 PM User is offline

system spec for oil is 8 ounces- you are oil starved- and probably have a big leak somewhere- since it was dead flat when you stepped up to it- most common leaks are compressor shaft seal and compressor body o-rings- look for oil resisdue about these-- also what happen to your cycling switch- running at anything less than 20 psi low side is a death trap- waiting to happen- you will lose your lubrication ability- the cycling switch on the accumulator should shut off the compressor at about 21 psi- and back on again at about 45 psi- sounds like yours is permanently jumpered- (or stuck shut) - a bad situation- compressor running hot is wearing it out big time-

bottom line- find and fix the leak- put the right amount of oil and refrigerant in it - and fix the cycling switch problem.....

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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

rdhack on Wed March 26, 2008 12:42 PM User is offline

Thanks Guys I do appreciate the advice......and yes that switch has to be bad now that you mention it. I had to have a heater core installed.I just wonder if the evaporator was damaged during the installation. I may try to somehow put a vacuum on each part separately to find out whats bad if i can figure out a country boy way of doing it.

Your help is greatly appreciated!

mhamilton on Wed March 26, 2008 2:30 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Flushed evaporator/condenser/lines and compressor with paint thinner and air dryed with compressed air

Did you flush the compressor with thinner or with fresh oil?

Compressors should not be flushed with solvents, only with fresh oil of the correct type. It's possible the thinner was still in the compressor, and diluted the oil.

Chick on Wed March 26, 2008 2:51 PM User is offlineView users profile

Just to add, never flush the compressor with anything but oil, as the others said, you have a leak, but if the low side went into a vacuum with an O tube system, you most likely need a compressor because the insides of the compressor are plugging the O tube..Recover, check the O tube, then post back..It's in the line just below the high side valve, which also is probably leaking due to not removing the old shrader valves..We can help, but check the o tube first...

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

rdhack on Wed March 26, 2008 4:52 PM User is offline

Thanks Chick

I bet you are on the money. Being the Novice AC man that I am I did use thinner on the compressor and I bet it has ruined it and the new orifice tube that I had installed is probably plugged up with compressor metal. I will try to get it checked out again however I am having carpal Tunnel surgery friday so its hard to find time to do that and work my day job as well. Matter of Fact I Guarantee that your analysis is what has happened. Could you suggest a compatible r134a compressor that would fit this vehicle?

Richard

mk378 on Wed March 26, 2008 5:10 PM User is offline

All R4's run on borrowed time anyway. I would suggest a new one rather than any sort of rebuilt. There's no different R134a version, the only difference is the oil. No matter what oil supposedly comes in the new one, pour/spin it out and put in a R134a compatible oil. Probably a double end capped PAG 150 since they like heavy oil.

TRB on Wed March 26, 2008 5:13 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: mk378
All R4's run on borrowed time anyway. I would suggest a new one rather than any sort of rebuilt. There's no different R134a version, the only difference is the oil. No matter what oil supposedly comes in the new one, pour/spin it out and put in a R134a compatible oil. Probably a double end capped PAG 150 since they like heavy oil.


While I think the company we use for re-manufactured compressors is fantastic. When it comes to an R4 I prefer new also!


-------------------------
When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Chick on Wed March 26, 2008 5:57 PM User is offlineView users profile

Check out Ackits.com for the compressor, accumulator and O tube, and aslo check out the BVA auto 100 ester oil for your retrofit. Check out the tips and FAQ page of this forum for vac/charge procedures.. The BVA auto 100 can be used with R12 as well as R134a. Best oil I've used to date.... hope this helps..

PS: get a bottle of Nylog assembly lube and O ring kit...Do it right and you'll do it once...

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

mk378 on Wed March 26, 2008 8:47 PM User is offline

Also remove those Interdynamics aluminum conversion fittings and (after removing the stock valve cores) put on steel ones like AMA sells. You might also find them locally at a real car parts store, not a "discount" chain. I just found all the R134a had leaked out of my car over the winter because the seal on the low side Interdynamics POS leaked.

rdhack on Wed March 26, 2008 8:50 PM User is offline


Had a little time to piddle this evening. I replace the low pressure valve core and added retrofitting. 90% sure the leak is the high pressure valve. I feel like an idiot for not looking at it before....the spring was sticking out-broken. The system had completely discharged. Can I find a replacement valve core for this ( the retrofit hi pressure I have has no core) or will I need a new line? The Orifice tube was covered with very fine metallic looking stuff. The compressor may have a little life left but I prob will replace it. Never had time to flush. If I had a replacement valve core I would flush and recharge the sysytem tomorrow night jsut to see if the compressor is any good. If not it may be several days before I can get back to it since I am scheduled for hand surgery friday.

Thanks for all your help and advice! I kind of like learning this stuff and wouldn't mind doing this part time or even full time after I retire from teaching!

Richard

rdhack on Wed March 26, 2008 8:57 PM User is offline

3/8-24 (3/16") 16 MM Coupler - Steel - Red Plastic Cap - Valve Core - Neoprene O-Ring - Threadlock

Is this what I need?

(from ACkits.com)

Chick on Wed March 26, 2008 9:09 PM User is offlineView users profile

Don't waste your time if the O tube is blocked or black, the compressor won't get any better, but will get worse, and you'll be flushing again.. Get the proper retrofit fittings, remove the old valve cores and use the fittings with their own shrader valve. Do it right and do it once...But do check the O tube before doing anything else..Hope this helps..

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

TRB on Wed March 26, 2008 9:25 PM User is offlineView users profile

If you're R12 hose on your gauge set fits the high side fitting (pre-conversion) you need this adapter.

1/4 R134a Adapter

If you need to add a charging adapter (pre-conversion) to the high side because the charging hose is too big to fit the service port. You need this adapter.

3/16 R134a Adapter

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com


Edited: Wed March 26, 2008 at 9:26 PM by TRB

mk378 on Thu March 27, 2008 1:31 AM User is offline

The plastic cap should prevent leaking from the service port even if the shrader valve is bad. Those interdymanics plastic caps are nothing to write home about either though.

Both of the R12 fittings the same diameter: use the 1/4 adapter. If the high side is smaller, which I think was the setup on nearly all cars by '91, you need the 3/16 adapter for it.

I suspect it's (also) leaking from the compressor shaft seal, just because they almost all do. New compressor is in order for several reasons.

rdhack on Thu March 27, 2008 7:15 AM User is offline

Here's my new plan whenever I can get to it:

Purchase flushing solution this time instead of paint thinner and flush system.

Purchase & install New R-4 Compressor, orifice tube and retrofit valves (Does the ones at ackits have their own valve core? I do need the 3/16 for the high side) I already have 8oz of BAV 100 oil.



Should my accumulator be O.K.? (it is newly purchased from ackits) or should I get another one?

Thanks

Chick on Thu March 27, 2008 7:18 AM User is offlineView users profile

Depending on what the O tube looks like, and I think it's going to be plugged, then get a new accumulator..Otherwise if it's not, and the oil doesn't look dark or black, I would still get a new accumulator. All the oil that ran thru it to this point is probably contaminated. You don't want any of that oil left in the system..New accumulator is in order here...Hope this helps..

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

TRB on Thu March 27, 2008 10:51 AM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: rdhack
(Does the ones at ackits have their own valve core?

The retro fittings we offer have their own valve cores. You will need to remove the valve core on your service port before installing the retro fitting we supply.



-------------------------
When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

rdhack on Fri March 28, 2008 9:16 PM User is offline

I've ordered a compressor, fittings, otube, accumulator,flush solvent, & switch from ackits. I am now unable to work due to hand surgery but will let you guys know how it turns out. I fully expect success this time around though. I also am thinking of purchasing a new hose assembly from NAPA.

I do have a question....the switch I ordered...(29-30401)....is it preadjusted and ready to operate in a 134a system?

Thanks !


Chick on Fri March 28, 2008 9:40 PM User is offlineView users profile

they are pre-adjustred, but that can change just being shipped around, we can explain how to adjust it once the system is charged, but be sure to check that O tube...It's really important.. You can also get the hose assembly from Ackits, just give them a call, or send an e-mail to Ackits.com and ask them about it. They can;t possibly list everything on their web site, but they can get it if they don't stock it, and you can be sure the price and quality will please you.... Hope this helps..

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

TRB on Sat March 29, 2008 1:15 AM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: Chick
they are pre-adjustred, but that can change just being shipped around, we can explain how to adjust it once the system is charged, but be sure to check that O tube...It's really important.. You can also get the hose assembly from Ackits, just give them a call, or send an e-mail to Ackits.com and ask them about it. They can;t possibly list everything on their web site, but they can get it if they don't stock it, and you can be sure the price and quality will please you.... Hope this helps..

Item Number 34-63910, Chick we have or have access to so much that is not listed its sad. But we are always working on adding items. Remember we always have this to help a little. We also are always willing to check on items not listed.

http://www.ackits.com/additional/main.htm

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

rdhack on Wed April 02, 2008 1:43 PM User is offline

O.K. Guys,

I received my shipment today from ACkits and I have a question before I do anyhing.
Inside the compressor box I found a variety of sealing washers. I believe it is pretty self-explainatory however I wanted some input from professionals before I did anything. It will be awhile before I am able due to hand surgery anyway.

Just give me some basic info of what to look for and to do installing these.

rdhack on Thu April 10, 2008 11:46 PM User is offline

Thanks to all who helped make this retrofit a success! Vehicle is now as cool as a cucumber!

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