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Ned to know if a Sanden scroll is used on Honda Civic Pages: 12

GM Tech on Mon February 18, 2008 2:05 PM User is offline

Year: ??
Make:

Hopefully one of you has a cross reference for this-- I need to know what late model vehicle and engine uses a Sanden scroll compressor- I think the latest version is a Honda Civic- '07 and '08 model years-- I plan to do some competitive analysis- and buy some scroll compressors at local slavage yards- to tear apart and explore- But I would like to speak intelligently to the salvage yard folks-- they would never know what a scroll is-- all they want to ask me is what model year vehicle and what engine I have-- it is easier to ask the experts here first-- since I am not sure what vehicle/engine uses it. I have a local salvage yard that will sell me any compressor for $100. some have less than a hundred miles on them---sure beats the heck out of the price of new ones!!

Thanks- I already have the Mitsubishi scroll from the U-vans that I need...

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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

CorvairGeek on Mon February 18, 2008 2:22 PM User is offline

Are those Mitsubishi's from the U-Vans any good? That whole Mitsubishi system from '01 on scare me. The V5 system seemed so good.


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Jerry

Chick on Mon February 18, 2008 2:37 PM User is offlineView users profile

Civics used them from the R12 years, up to recently with R134a, Dodge vans (full sized) used them with R12 and R134a, some dodge cars like sebring and others used them.. Can't think of them all from the top of my head, but just go to AcKits.com and check the civics year to year, Dodge vans year to year etc.. Hope this helps.. (Accords used the Nippons)

PS: Also seem to remember some ford SH0 using them...Not sure, but I do have some nice pics I can send you if you want... I have three with the sides blown out...

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

Edited: Mon February 18, 2008 at 2:40 PM by Chick

GM Tech on Mon February 18, 2008 2:39 PM User is offline

I've replaced two Mitsubishi scrolls- both for poor pumping- they also were known for leaks around the high pressure relief valve--- easy job-- the new pumps are about $700- but I can get one off a used van for $100- with very little miles--there really isn't a market for a used compressor on a fairly new model yr- because they are usually still under warranty-- but the ones off of '05s and '06s will backfit an '01-- so it works for me. That whole system went to Mitsubishi- Delphi lost it after the 2000 model yr-- the the **it hit the fan when the condensers went bad in the '01 and '02 model yrs-- the Aztek and Rendezvous have the same components and it is the same failure on those as well.... Delphi got out-bid- GM went to the cheaper system- the customer loses in the end-- the cost of that replacement compressor is nearly double that of a V-5 -- and I don't think there is a rebuilder for scrolls-- at least that I know of....

-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

TRB on Mon February 18, 2008 3:03 PM User is offlineView users profile

1995 Honda Civic

COMP TRS090 4993 PV4 HONDA CIVIC/CR-V 94-01

Sanden # is 4993

20-04993

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com


Edited: Mon February 18, 2008 at 3:07 PM by TRB

CorvairGeek on Mon February 18, 2008 3:04 PM User is offline

Thanks! I figured the newest vans (etc) were still using them too, which you confirmed.

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Jerry

ice-n-tropics on Mon February 18, 2008 5:09 PM User is offline

The 07/08 Civic has the latest technology scroll with:
1) Stepped higher strength scroll members. The high pressure volume in the center formally could fatigue the scroll wall and crack at the base plate attachment point near the discharge hole. Now the scroll wall is stepped to be thicker at the base for 5X strength
2) AN OIL SEPERATOR IS INCORPORATED IN THE DISCHARGE CHAMBER TO RETURN MUCH OF THE OIL TO THE SUCTION CHAMBER THROUGH A FILTERED ORIFICE.
3) The OCR throughout the system is reduced from 5% to now 1.5%

The Trailblazer TRSA12 has the stepped scrolls also
Cordially,
Old IV guy busier than a one armed paperhanger (now on military A/C)

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Isentropic Efficiency=Ratio of Theoretical Compression Energy/Actual Energy.
AMAZON.com: How To Air Condition Your Hot Rod

TRB on Mon February 18, 2008 5:14 PM User is offlineView users profile

What is the Sanden number for the 07/08 model?

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

ice-n-tropics on Mon February 18, 2008 5:48 PM User is offline

Sanden said they won't make an aftermarket version avaliable until the 3 year Honda warranty expires on the new model TR

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Isentropic Efficiency=Ratio of Theoretical Compression Energy/Actual Energy.
AMAZON.com: How To Air Condition Your Hot Rod

bohica2xo on Tue February 19, 2008 1:38 AM User is offline

Nice of them to give the chinese knock-off factory a three year head start.

B.

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"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

ice-n-tropics on Tue February 19, 2008 4:38 PM User is offline

Yea Bend,
Last new model they took 3.5 years to launch after market and all the big distributors stocked up on knock offs, therefore Sanden's sales went in the toilet.
challenge:
How to keep occupants of a military tank alive when R-134a discharges inside the cabin?
Cordially,
Old IV guy

-------------------------
Isentropic Efficiency=Ratio of Theoretical Compression Energy/Actual Energy.
AMAZON.com: How To Air Condition Your Hot Rod

Chick on Tue February 19, 2008 5:23 PM User is offlineView users profile

Doing front collision work on a 99 Galant. Question for Ice-in-tropics, is the Mitsubishi scroll on this Galant made under Sanden license, or is it a design of it's own. The Civics I see have the lines on the other side since the drive is on the drivers side, and on the passenger side of the Galant. but it does look like the Sanden basically.. clutches look very similar..Just curious... naturally they will not go onto Honda's cars..




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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

bohica2xo on Wed February 20, 2008 3:57 AM User is offline

Tex:

Yeah, the NBC filters will only take care of what is outside the tank! I guess it would depend on the volume & type of the leak. For a rupture, I guess you could look for the leak & crank up the fresh air intake blower? That is a tough one.


Chick:

That thing could have been made by anyone, in any country. The harbor-bombers are fond of the adhesive label ID's because they are so easy to change... I remember when Mazak got caught by the DOD swapping labels on jap machines to sell us "Made in USA" equipment.

B.

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"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

iceman2555 on Wed February 20, 2008 9:46 AM User is offlineView users profile

Along the lines of bohica2xo and the increase of fresh air inlet blowers, assuming that this rupture would probably occur during combat and the occupants would be consumed with other activities....could a sensor be placed in the liquid line the evap that would sense a sudden drop in pressure and thereby activate the blower to increase the volume of 'clean' air into the cabin. Something similar to the proposed 'dump' valves for the 152 systems.
What is the possible volume of refrigerant that may be released into the crew cabin and does this amount exceed the lethal concentrations of 134a?
ice, is this part of the 'Hickman' program....is so...sounds very interesting?

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

HECAT on Wed February 20, 2008 5:34 PM User is offline

Does the tank already have any type of internal air quality monitoring (gas analyzer)? Can it, or could it be replaced or calibrated to detect R134a and activate an external refrigerant "dump"?

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iceman2555 on Wed February 20, 2008 7:50 PM User is offlineView users profile

One idea would be to address this issue with the Israelites...bet they have already made an adjustment for this condition. Seems they have already solved the problem with the Hummer issue...made some changes in the condenser and evaps.....could not get a straight answer from the individual...but then he may have simply been blowing some...gas...probably inhaled much too much 134a and the resultant mental problems are occurring.
All I want to know...does ice-n have a late model tank to test for this problem...if so...headed to TX for some fun.....always wanted to get behind the 'wheel' of an M1A1 / M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank. Bet those things are great fun to drive.
Ya'll have fun out there tonite!!!!

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

NickD on Thu February 21, 2008 1:49 PM User is offline

Quote
I have a local salvage yard that will sell me any compressor for $100. some have less than a hundred miles on them

Ha, what salvage yard is that? Have one next to an airport outer marker that Tracker John couldn't find, really way out in the woods. Stopped in there last summer for the first time and asked about a part for a 98 Escort, was told, they don't have anything that new. The land that time forgot.

So exactly who buys a brand new vehicle puts less than a 100 miles on it, and totals it?

steve325is on Thu February 21, 2008 2:31 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: NickD
Quote
I have a local salvage yard that will sell me any compressor for $100. some have less than a hundred miles on them

So exactly who buys a brand new vehicle puts less than a 100 miles on it, and totals it?

Me, sort of.

I loaned my GMC pickup to a co-worker for the weekend back in 1989. I signed out one of our brand-new Ford Festiva service loaners to drive home. A guy in a 300ZX blew a red light and broadsided me in the RR wheel. The Festiva had 142 miles on it when it was hit. The damage estimate was $9600.

-- Steve

ice-n-tropics on Fri February 22, 2008 2:10 PM User is offline

Thanks for the thoughts guys. Back hoe severed our Internet/phone line so I had to go to the library .
I was rembering about Jim Baker's (Delphi's refrigerant and PAG Guru) comments on R152a due to it's supporting combustion when subject to a flame. Jim used a "squibb" dump valve in the wheel well when there was a sudden leak. Don't know if he used a O2 sensor or a sudden pressure release sensor.
Like to know what kind of sensor the Israel eng uses.
DuPont recommends against a R-134a sensor but that's it. Dang lawyers!
Sniffing R-134a to the point of O2 depravation is probably explains why the Dirty Dozen hang out here with TRB.
I'll probably recommend a self contained breathing device (SCBD). Personally I would rather breathe a little R-134a than PAG mist.

Mitsubishi licensed Sanden scroll technology for several years then dumped Sanden and went back to the 1905 Oldham Coupling technology patented by Leon Crow.
Cordially,
Old IV guy

-------------------------
Isentropic Efficiency=Ratio of Theoretical Compression Energy/Actual Energy.
AMAZON.com: How To Air Condition Your Hot Rod

GM Tech on Fri February 22, 2008 2:20 PM User is offline

The salvage yard tells me they have the contract on "GM Carrier Damage" vehicles-- these are the ones that fall off the vehicle carriers and cannot be sold-- Heck, I have bought an A/C compressor that had only 15 miles on it!!! and they Fed-Ex it to my house......what's the difference between a new compressor and one with 15 miles?? about $600 - I figure......when you call their number you get the choice of used car sales, used parts, front office, etc- they have professional sales people who know their products- just like a retail sales- I actually thought I had the wrong place-- I expected "normal" type Junkyard Hype-- not with this outfit......

-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

NickD on Fri February 22, 2008 10:04 PM User is offline

Kind of a subtle warning not to tailgate a car carrier, eh? Hate to be a driver of one of those and have to explain why a new vehicle fell off. But one man's loss is another man's gain.

HECAT on Sat February 23, 2008 7:54 AM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: GM Tech
"GM Carrier Damage" vehicles-- these are the ones that fall off the vehicle carriers and cannot be sold...

Wonder where the "cannot be sold" line is drawn? I drove a new 02 GM vehicle off the lot with only 6 miles on it, only to find it devalued in a trade in appraisal a few years later, because of the high content of bondo in the roof and doors. Kudos to the Body Shop for some real fine work. I never saw it until it the evidence was pointed out to me by a professional appraisers eye.

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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

NickD on Sat February 23, 2008 9:47 PM User is offline

Put a ring magnet with felt glued to one side when looking at a used car, but never thought of bringing that along for a new vehicle, that tells the bondo story in a hurry, can certainly feel a lot less drag.

Now I should bring that along when looking at a new vehicle? If I ever do again? Oh, it doesn't work on Corvettes and Saturns.

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