Automotive Air Conditioning Information Forum (Archives)

Provided by www.ACkits.com

We've updated our forums!
Click here to visit the new forum

Archive Home

Search Auto AC Forum Archives

Question on Air Purge on a car AC system

540itouring on Sat February 09, 2008 10:39 AM User is offline

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

Hi , i have a snap on refrigerant identifier with air pure technology and have a manual with it but would just like to ask this question. I would just like to know how the air able to be purged out of the system as the only way i can see that this could work is if the air in the system floats to the top of the refrigerant ? . This would them make sense providing that the purging would be from a high point in the ac layout with in the engine bay. I have never used this unit to purge but is able to remove air to 2% and so is able with care to top up and avoid a full recharge . Has any members on the forum got any info on this and also how well they work. My car has climate control so the ac system works on and off most days at some point and is a 1997 year bmw which i have had for 4 years and never had to touch the system . The air on full ac is still very cold so not sure if i should try a purge of just recover and full recharge as normal but would save alot of time if it works . Thanks for your advice in advance. This unit can also purge storage cylinders of recovered gas etc

Chick on Sat February 09, 2008 7:47 PM User is offlineView users profile

I'm not familiar with that one, but it may be for purging air from a 30lb tank??, or dentifying air in the system?? Not sure.. But the answer to your other question, is evacuate, then fully charge into the vacuum whatever the system calls for, adding only UV dye and maybe an ounce of oil (depending on the size of the leak...) Hope this helps..

-------------------------
Chick
Email: Chick

---------------------------------------------

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

Chick on Sat February 09, 2008 7:55 PM User is offlineView users profile

Since Snap-on seldom makes their AC tools, it's probably the neutronics system as shown in this article.. Which means you can remove air in a running system as long as it's 98+ pure refrigerant..Looks pretty cool.. Tim and the guys at Ackits.com can get those should anyone want one..I think????

-------------------------
Chick
Email: Chick

---------------------------------------------

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

iceman2555 on Sat February 09, 2008 8:36 PM User is offlineView users profile

The 'air purge' is part a recovery/recharge station. It is designed for purging air from recovered refrigerant. It is not meant as a method to 'air purge' a operational system. If air is present within the system, the system should be recovered, evac'd and recharged with a known good recharge. The vehicle then should be recheck for possible air re contamination.

-------------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

Chick on Sat February 09, 2008 8:45 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: iceman2555
The 'air purge' is part a recovery/recharge station. It is designed for purging air from recovered refrigerant. It is not meant as a method to 'air purge' a operational system. If air is present within the system, the system should be recovered, evac'd and recharged with a known good recharge. The vehicle then should be recheck for possible air re contamination.

Thats what I thought, but reading the article it seems it can be used on the cars ac system, in about three minutes or so for a 32 or 42 ounce system..I didn't read the whole article though, as I recover/recharge anyway... Curious how it works, but didn't have the time to read the whole article at the time.... Seems to be "new technology"..

-------------------------
Chick
Email: Chick

---------------------------------------------

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

540itouring on Sun February 10, 2008 2:05 PM User is offline

The unit i have was a very expensive snap on , red case unit which is a newtronics unit as said but just recased. The system is able to test for most gas types and even warns if it finds inflamable gas in the system . This system can purge air from the bottles and the cars system in a few minutes so looks a great bit of kit. The unit tests and checks the type of gas and if it is found to be pure in then lets you do a air purge to remove air content to 2% and if it works as good as it says it must save alot of time . I also have a electronic sight glass (ultrasonic tester that looks for bubbles within the metal pipe for cars with no sight glass) and with reference to this and a manifold guage you should be able to top up a system.

Has no one on this forum ever used a neutronics system like this ? I think the sight glass is made by TIF .

Karl Hofmann on Mon February 11, 2008 4:29 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: 540itouring
I also have a electronic sight glass (ultrasonic tester that looks for bubbles within the metal pipe for cars with no sight glass) and with reference to this and a manifold guage you should be able to top up a system.



Has no one on this forum ever used a neutronics system like this ? I think the sight glass is made by TIF .

It is far quicker and more accurate to charge by recovering, evacuating and recharging using scales.. In fact the gauge and sightglass method is useless on vehicles with a variable displacement compressor and these can only be recharged by weight. I have seen the electronic sight glasses but couldn't find a use for one.. If the purge on the refrigerant analiser is similar to the purge on my Robinair management station then it is a valve filled with R134a as a reference and is then connected to your sample of refrigerant (Or in the case of my equipment the refrigerant tank) if the sample does not exert the same pressure as the reference R134a in the valve then it must be contaminated and the valve opens and vents the gas being tested to the atmosphere until equilibrium has been restored..



-------------------------
Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

iceman2555 on Mon February 11, 2008 5:43 PM User is offlineView users profile

Checked with Snap On concerning this tool. They state that it can be used to identify and remove air from a auto system. I use the same unit...but not from Snap On and my instructions do not include this. However, an agreement with Karl...why not simply recover the refrigerant, evac the system to insure that ALL air is removed and recharge as a liquid back to OE specs. Seems like a much easier and more accurate position.
Can remember the 'electronic' sight glasses....think there is still one in the A/C cabinet somewhere. Used these back in the days to insure a complete recharge of the first CCOT systems. Gosh, seems like only yesterday.
Seems like a new learning experience each day.....


-------------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

bohica2xo on Tue February 12, 2008 9:13 PM User is offline

If there is measurable air in the system, then you have to ask how it got there, and what else got in with it...

This is a "service" I would not want to see performed on my own vehicle. On a customer's car, if I found air it would be time to recover & look for a hack repair job...

As Karl explained the system, how would you get the reference sample to the same temperature as the underhood components? Store the vehicle & tester in the same room overnight?

B.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

iceman2555 on Wed February 13, 2008 10:30 AM User is offlineView users profile

The pressure/temperature problem was a major concern for me, however, when this was addressed to the Snap On folks, they stated that this was not concern for this piece of equipment. There statement was "The air purge system is not pressure/temperature dependent & will operate under all normal conditions."
However, agreement with why not forget the short cut....get it all out.....evac and recharge....enuff said.
But then there are those that will always seek the easy way...that proverbial short cut to save 30 minutes and then spend an additional 3 hours doing it over......and perhaps....over once more.....but....what the heck......

-------------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

bohica2xo on Wed February 13, 2008 3:52 PM User is offline

Iceman:

Thanks for the clarification on the P/T issue, but I will stick with my trusty old Dial A Charge...

B.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

540itouring on Sat February 16, 2008 9:35 AM User is offline

Ok just to thank you all for your comments and would recover / vac / recharge in all cases untill i got this unit.

Question . I have a E39 BMW that is a 1997 model and have owned it for over 4 years and is used every day as this has climate control and never switched off. The air is very cold from the vents but was just thinking if any gas had leaked over that time. My view would be if no gas has leaked , no air would be in the system but no aircon car system can be 100% leak free dur to seals etc. Would you also say if a system has no measured leaks and works perfect and used every day , not to touch it until it goes wrong ?



Thanks for all your help .

iceman2555 on Sat February 16, 2008 11:20 AM User is offlineView users profile

Suppose this goes back to the ole adage...."if it ain't broke....don't mess with it"..or something to that affect.
However, A/C service, recover and recharge is accomplished on personal vehicles every two years. A/C system do leak, although industry statements are that the newer systems leakage is much less than those of the 12 days. Think I read somewhere app 7 years average for an intact system. However, this is just the way I service my vehicle. With the proper recover/recharge equipment....whats the problem...a hour or two of service while accomplishing other service procedures.
Memory recalls that I read where it cost app $.08 to produce one penny....in that cast the above was my $.16 worth.

-------------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

Karl Hofmann on Sat February 16, 2008 6:29 PM User is offlineView users profile

Seen too many cars still running with 200 grammes of refrigerant and silver oil to agree with your statement... I checked both my van and car last Summer and both were within spec. Far too many customers only see the bottom line and will wait till something stops working.. some cars are lucky.. I've never met a lucky Ford Galaxy owner though

-------------------------
Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

Back to Automotive Air Conditioning Forum

We've updated our forums!
Click here to visit the new forum

Archive Home

Copyright © 2016 Arizona Mobile Air Inc.