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'99 S10 New Compressor's Front Seal Failed. . Why & other ??'s..

Hip2u77 on Sat October 20, 2007 10:10 AM User is offline

Year: 99
Make: Chevy
Model: S-10
Engine Size: 2.4l
Refrigerant Type: R134a


Hi.

I bought a '99 S-10 from a family member and was told the A/C had a leak. I took it to a local place that stuck a newer Snap-On machine on it, charged it up and we went over for an hour trying to find the source of the leak. No luck.

Over the next 30-45 days or so it finally all but quit cooling and a quick look with my black light showed the leak was at the compressor case seam. I'd read it was a common area for leaks so I just ordered a cheap refurb from eBay, (I know, I know. . . sorry, but after a new roof funds are tight for a couple months.) and it came with a accumulator and orifice tube.

I called the shop and they said to put 2oz of oil in the compressor (through the plug), 2oz in the accumulator and then come see him. Napa sold me Ester oil and said it was compatible with the PAG 150 that GM calls for. (They didn't have any PAG in stock.)

I followed his instructions, changed the o-rings / gaskets in the process and went to see him. He spun the compressor by hand a few times hooked the machine up and 30 minutes later said I was done. He never started the truck.

I drive home and it works fine. (15 minute drive.) Few days later I use it about 10 minutes. Next day I try it and it wouldn't kick on. When I opened the hood I was greeted by oil / green dye covering some of the engine / compressor and a oil line on the hood felt that based on what I had read was caused by a front seal that failed.


Whew. . .


So, now what? I sent the compressor back and they replaced it, but it's still sitting on my counter as I'm not sure what to do now. I don't know what caused it to fail. I used a postal scale to measure the oil and I do have about half of the 8oz bottle of oil left over so I don't think I put too much oil in it, but I"m at a loss now.

After the new one failed I put the factory back on just so I could drive it.

So. . . Do I need to take it someplace while the old compressor is on there to have it fully flushed since I have no idea how much oil is in the system. Put the new one on and then go have it flushed, or?

Do I need to replace the place the accumulator / orifice tube again? (The old tube was clean when I replaced it. No chunks of anything, no build up, and came out with a simple tug with needle nose pliers.)

What causes a front seal failure? I did see the machine setup for 1 lb 12oz when it was charging it, but he didn't remember me being there before. He said "well you got your freebie" after he charged it. He assumed I was trying to get a free charge so I showed him my receipt to prove I was there and that it noted the free recharge but I wondered if he might have overfilled it just to cause damage? Doubt as now that I think about it. . . he did mention he'd had quite a few people (with V7's) come back after quick failures while using O'Reilly & Parts America compressors, and that only the "Ford style V7 compressors from Autozone" have been reliable.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to detail all the steps that led to this post.
Thanks,

Shawn.


(PS. I am mechanically inclined, but pretty clueless when it comes to A/C work. I did originally buy the HF gauges and vacuum pump but then realized it was more trouble then just having someone throw it on a machine.

TRB on Sat October 20, 2007 2:37 PM User is offlineView users profile

Ebay strikes again, at least this time they provided a replacement. What did the Ebay seller suggest as far as why it failed? My approach is to flush the system, replace the accumulator/drier, OT and fresh oil. I would not be using EBay items either cost factor or not. Refrigerant and time have already cost you as much as the "Ebay" savings I would imagine.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Hip2u77 on Sat October 20, 2007 3:02 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: TRB
Ebay strikes again, at least this time they provided a replacement. What did the Ebay seller suggest as far as why it failed? My approach is to flush the system, replace the accumulator/drier, OT and fresh oil. I would not be using EBay items either cost factor or not. Refrigerant and time have already cost you as much as the "Ebay" savings I would imagine.

I didn't ask why it failed, and they didn't offer any suggestions. I just told them it died after 30 minutes and they gave me an RMA.

What's the difference in the ebay china compressor I bought and the one AMA sells, besides price? I realize that a lot of ebay stuff isn't the best quality, but the company has been on there for a couple years, has good feedback and I figured if everything they sold was junk they wouldn't still be around.

I don't take my misfortune as any indication of their quality as everyone has one slip through. Having worked in a couple high-perf auto parts stores and after spending over 7 years at one of Ford's assembly plants I've seen my share of car / truck parts fail right off the bat from everyone from big names to china "junk." Now if this new one fails right off the bat I'll be upset.

TRB on Sat October 20, 2007 3:33 PM User is offlineView users profile

There are many different China suppliers. Some good some not so good. I trust the importer we use and have seen the results of others. Anyway I personally would not use any Ebay item. Just can't support a site which condones the selling of stolen items. Talking about Ebay in general, not your purchase. I also would agree that everyone can have a defective product from time to time.

I offered my suggestion on how I would repair the system.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Chick on Sat October 20, 2007 7:35 PM User is offlineView users profile

Your GM V7 is Korean made to begin with and do have their own problems, and I hear of guys using a V5 in their place (Have to check by eye/hand on mounting configurations though) But we can't speculate on why a new one failed. But pressures would be helpful. That and mixing oils is not a good idea in my opinion, and I agree with Tim that the system should be flushed and PAG 150 oil used. System amount is 8 ounces I believe.. I also don't trust shops that depend totally on their $6,000 machines. They have to know how to use them. Did it inject oil into the system? Who knows.. I'm just saying that because I do a lot of work for shops that have the expensive machines, and when they can't fix it, then they send it to me..Kinda breaks into their profits, but... A Machine is just that..A machine.. If you can, try to get the pressures from them, we can tell much more by those..

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

gregg on Mon October 22, 2007 8:58 AM User is offline

I am having trouble believing the guy who charged the vehicle first time couldn't find the leak,
and that he didn't run it and make sure pressures and outlet temps were correct after charging it a 2nd time. Sounds like pretty shoddy work to mel As for your suspicion that he may have over-charged it, or injected too much oil the 2nd time it sounds plausible to me. Could also be the clutch fan. Overcharging or bad clutch fan will cause high high side pressures and possbily blow the shaft seal. Or too much or mixing oils.
Was the cooling really good after he charged it a 2nd time?

The advise you got here thus far is excellant...best to flush and start over. Then you will know
exactly whats in there when the job is done. Also don't think I'd take it back to the
chargbot...sounds like thats about as much as he knows how to do.










NickD on Mon October 22, 2007 10:35 AM User is offline

Quote
sorry, but after a new roof funds are tight for a couple months

Did you pay to get that done too? Around here they charge 5-6 times the cost of the shingle just to nail it down, a chance to get outside, get some exercise, and have some money left over to buy decent car parts. Reroofed three of my previous homes already, brother helped with the first, kids with the second and third, really a boring job, but did treat my self to an air roofer nail gun and a hundred feet of compressor hose.

I would be tempted to remove the seal from that ebay special to learn if it was replaced and to check the shaft for a worn groove in it, if there, leave negative feedback, GM has a newer double lip seal that is one of the problems as well as seam leaks. My vacuum pump and gauges are already about 42 years old, take care of them and still in real good condition, but get teed off whenever GM changes something requiring me to buy more tools.

I scheduled myself to remove the York compressor to learn whether it's a five or six bolt, seems crazy when I have the model number, but was just summoned for jury duty with a threat of a jail sentence if I don't show up. Just going to add another pound of R-12 and let it go another year. Daughter is begging me to come down, a power surge fried her digital piano, that I cannot repair at the price of replacement preprogrammed microprocessors, but she was given an acoustic piano with a couple of broken hammers, sticking tools, and sure needs a tune job. Have the equipment for that too and my granddaughters take precedence for piano lessons over my leaking seal. But how do I deal with jury duty?

Retired now, but frequently stayed up all night repairing my cars, at 76 bucks an hour post tax bucks, actually paying well over a hundred bucks an hour that is not tax deductible! If put on the credit card would be more like 200 bucks an hour with those easy monthly payments, then something else breaks down. Retired now, so generally go to bed at night and pick it up the next day and have four vehicles so won't miss one while I work on it. Know the feeling of only having one vehicle with problems and having to be at work the next morning.

Would never put cheap stuff in my cars, even under warranty, no one makes up for my lost sleep or pays me to replace those cheapass parts.

bohica2xo on Mon October 22, 2007 6:12 PM User is offline

Failure looks like it may have had compounded errors. I have done a lot of failure analysis work, and have never seen an MVAC compressor worth the effort to investigate - dead is dead. Flush to bare metal, replace the necessary components, charge the OEM spec oil type & quantity, vac & charge. A reman that has failed again may have had many different issues leading up to either failure. For original performance, it is necessary to put everything back the way it was when the dealer delivered it...


Nick:

I hate that boring roofing job. I did my sister's place last spring in ONDURA material. Much faster to complete the job, and a lifetime warranty. No tear-off of the old roof either - the money saved on trash pickup was worth the effort. This stuff is tough.

B.

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"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

NickD on Tue October 23, 2007 12:32 AM User is offline

Interesting about ONDURA, still would need 600 tiles plus the ridge caps, and that's over 2,700 pounds to haul up on a long ladder. Checking on a local distributor, see what happens. How is the edge finished off? Not those open corrugated holes things can crawl up into.

Wouldn't spend over five minutes on that junk compressor to verify the seal and the shaft, not much compared to the time in changing and pulling it, packing it up and driving across town to the nearest UPS station, then having to do it all over again.

Spend an hour with my daughter on the phone talking her through removing all 88 keys on her piano, said a bracket wasn't there, said it's there, look again, she found it. She removed and cleaned all 88 keys, found lots of debris but no money, bonds, or treasure maps, cured the sticking key problem, she was so proud.

bohica2xo on Tue October 23, 2007 3:17 AM User is offline

Nick:

I used the 48"x79" panels, not the tiles. They make a closure strip that fits under the sheet at the end to keep vermin out - you tuck it in before nailing through it. Keeps the wind from getting under as well. The devil is in the details, and they seem to have addressed them well. The moulded flashings for roof penetrations are great.

Just think - if you have to haul up 2700 lbs of NEW roofing, you will probably be tearing off 2700 lbs of old crap that you have to clean up & put in a dumpster you pay to have hauled off... I saved at least a day of hard work by leaving the old 3-tab in place. Plus the 250 bucks for trash pickup. The sheets are just the right size to hand up to a helper standing on the roof. Not too heavy to handle and stack on the first floor roof. Might be a bigger issue if you only have second floor roofing, but that is an issue for any kind of roofing material.

B

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

NickD on Tue October 23, 2007 7:11 AM User is offline

Meant the panels, sent off for the information, showed a guy with a hammer and a nail, can you use a nail gun? Thanks

bohica2xo on Tue October 23, 2007 1:47 PM User is offline

Nick:

As long as you use a roofing nail, the gun is fine - for most of it. (staples are a no-go) You can use the nail gun in the valley of the sheet, where it contacts the mounting surface. For the places you find it necessary to go through the crests, you need to use a 3 inch nail - without crushing the crest. They specify a rubber washer nail for this - but I used screws with sealing washers (I just could not bring myself to swing a hammer at that nice surface)

You will need a chalk line, and a helper. The sheeets get fairly limber in the sun, and you may need to push them back to the 48" nominal width - marked with your chalk line. It goes fast with a decent coil nailer. I used a 24 inch square of 3/4 plywood, covered with closed cell foam on both sides for a knee board. It grips like velcro on the ondura, and you can reach the whole sheet with the nail gun. Nail the overlap, push the edge back, nail the aligned edge in about 4 places - then drop the board & go to town.

My sister's place is in a class5 wind zone, and she says it made things quieter in the house. Which reminds me, I need to go check her wind turbine...

B.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

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