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'05 Caddy DTS Springin' Leaks Already

JJM on Sun September 09, 2007 2:19 PM User is offline

Year: 2005
Make: Cadillac
Model: DeVille DTS
Engine Size: 4.6
Refrigerant Type: R-134a
Ambient Temp: 87F
Country of Origin: United States

Crappy GM cars! Was doing some service on the Caddy yesterday, oil & filter change, trans fluid & filter change, air, cabin, and seat filters, and drained the DexCool crap before it turns into lava - which required pulling the front air dam. Once the dam was removed I see the lovely compressor discharge line:





Don't need no stinkin' UV light and glasses for this one!

Here's a closer look with the protective loom removed:



Look at this thing... not even 3 years old with just over 50K on the clock and look at this nice size leak. Don't know if it's the discharge hose or sensor leaking though. I might just replace both while I'm down there - at $109 and $49 and change respectively... notice the "I" at the beginning of the sentence; I'm out of warranty now so it's I now.

Pulled out the sniffer, and amazingly it's not picking up anything. Surprisingly, the A/C works fine - well... as good as can be expected for CCOT on a Caddy (never great since new) and aside from the rotten sock smell from the evap - another PITA to deal with.

In any event, I cleaned up the mess and will recheck, hoping for a little better clue.

Crappy GM cars! While I was working on this thing, I noticed things are really starting to get ratty all around. Things have stabilized at GM... for now. Just wait until the 5/100,000 warranty claims start biting them hard.

Joe

TRB on Sun September 09, 2007 2:55 PM User is offlineView users profile

This is why I don't buy "American" anymore. That is if parts from Mexico put on in the US makes it American. Lexus pal, heck Toyota is gaining on how many US plants they have anyway. So maybe a Toyota/Lexus is as American as a GM/Mexico vehicle.

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Contact: ACKits.com

CorvairGeek on Sun September 09, 2007 3:37 PM User is offline

I know it isn't quite the same comparison, but our '96 Century (3.1V6) has been doing the same thing on the discharge hose for over a year. Looks like a pin hole that weeps oil and runs down the hose. I would swear that someone punctured it, but no one has been under the hood but me for years. Even more oddly, like yours, the A/C still seems to work fine. We've had lots of +100 degree days in Boise this year (I'll be glad when global cooling returns . I happen to have put a small stainless clamp around the weep hole months ago, only has sprung another tiny one since. I had fully expected to change the hose (and leaky front seal in the V5) this past spring. I've been disappointed in some of the compents on this car.

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Jerry

GM Tech on Mon September 10, 2007 8:13 AM User is offline

Are you sure it is refrigerant oil on that line? I have seen numerous Caddys that have greenish-olive green oil from engine oil coolers- leak.. also the oil pan gasket leaks are green- must be their type of oil.... with a leak that APPEARS to be that big-- your a/c would not be cooling and shut itself down months ago... so something here is amiss........even with a black light you can be fooled by Caddys--make sure the green fluid is flourescent- and jumps right out at you---otherwise I'll bet it is engine oil--wipe that hose down- run it a week and see what re-appears--- Hate to see you waste your money on a misdiagnosis........................

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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

NickD on Mon September 10, 2007 12:56 PM User is offline

What does that oil taste like? Can't really tell you the difference how engine oil tastes compared to PAG, can only tell you it taste different. Ha, you can tell I am an old timer.

Oh, don't swallow it, spit it out and make sure you say, yuk! Well, I don't have to tell you about the yuk part, that comes automatically.

Edited: Mon September 10, 2007 at 12:58 PM by NickD

steve325is on Mon September 10, 2007 2:12 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: TRB
This is why I don't buy "American" anymore. That is if parts from Mexico put on in the US makes it American. Lexus pal, heck Toyota is gaining on how many US plants they have anyway. So maybe a Toyota/Lexus is as American as a GM/Mexico vehicle.

The Tacomas assembled at the NUMMI plant here in California have beds that are pre-assembled and pre-painted in Mexico

-- Steve

TRB on Mon September 10, 2007 2:24 PM User is offlineView users profile

Worse part of my truck is the bed. I swear you could drop a piece of paper on it and dent the bed. I'm sure there are others items made in Mexico or somewhere else. My opinion is the US manufactures have done a poor job period. But that is my opinion and I'm sure someone else will think Toyota sucks.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

JJM on Mon September 10, 2007 2:35 PM User is offline

Thanks guys for hearing me vent...

I'm wondering if some compressor oil spilled at the factory during assembly. It does seem like it would be a large leak and the system indeed should've kicked out a SERVICE A/C message by now, but it cools good, the compressor isn't short cycling, and there are no codes. As long as it's working, I'll leave it as is.

But I would like to find out what this stuff really is. Next time I'm at my buddy's shop, I'll recover and weigh the charge; I will recharge to spec with NEW refrigerant though since they don't use an analyzer, and I'll use my own pump for the vac.

Speaking of recovey machines, any of you guys have your machines trashed by sealer and other goo? How are you guys dealing with this potential problem?

In any event, of even greater concern is the tranny. Look at garbage this thing has left behind already:

Solid particles in pan:



Magnet loaded up with debris:



Filter assemblies with solid particles:



I posted about this with our friends over at BAT. At least I know a really good tranny guy over there if this thing blows apart... though it will be a 143 mile trip to his shop. Good tranny guys are almost impossible to find.

I'm gettin too old for this stuff, back is bothering me today. If I decide to change the line, maybe I'll just drive over to Chick's and let him deal with it, LOL.

Joe

NickD on Mon September 10, 2007 4:10 PM User is offline

How old are you anyway? Figured I am twice your age, but maybe I have got that reversed. Less than a teaspoon of AT debris is good, mostly stuff that wasn't deburred properly. Should be less next time you check in in about 30K miles.

I love my 88 Toyota Supra, even runs now, but has a Made in the USA Carter fuel pump, have to change the timing belt, valve seals, and adjust the valves before driving it, but waiting for Joe's back to heal before starting this project. Just in case I need some help.

NickD on Mon September 10, 2007 5:58 PM User is offline

Transman is quite a guy, have a guy just 30 miles from me that speaks and acts the same language, close to my age, but been in AT's all of his life and extremely conscientious. Wasn't aware that your shift solenoids may fall off, hmmm, wonder if your AT can shift without shift solenoids. You gonna replaced those, or wait and see what happens?

Chick on Mon September 10, 2007 8:56 PM User is offlineView users profile

"I'm gettin too old for this stuff, back is bothering me today. If I decide to change the line, maybe I'll just drive over to Chick's and let him deal with it, LOL.

Joe "
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hah, Joe you're welcome to drive over anytime, and i'll help you all I can, even buy you lunch!!.....But do you really think "my" back is any better than yours...

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

NickD on Tue September 11, 2007 9:11 AM User is offline

Ha, Chick, you just want to taste that Cadillac oil, still tastes terrible, but much better than Chevy oil.

Cussboy on Tue September 11, 2007 2:15 PM User is offline

I agree with GM Tech - find out what the problem is first. I doubt you AC would still be working if it was such a large AC leak, so I personally ouldn't pull out the refrigerant to weigh, at this point. I'd hose and clean it all off, then start taking a carful look-see.

JJM on Tue September 11, 2007 2:39 PM User is offline

Sorry, Chick but lunch (or dinner) would have to be on me... that's non-negotiable.

My back has gotten so bad at times I have to ask my wife to help me put on my socks; I just can't bend anymore. I guess that's one of the benefits of marriage. But I still manage. My back is starting to hurt just looking at the 89K plus on clock of the wife's '01 Camry XLE with the 90K timing belt change interval coming up, and all the things that go with it like water pump, tensioner, pulleys, seals, not to mention the V-6 is an interference engine, so one screw-up and the motor is done. Hmmm, now might be a good time to get the wife a new car, LOL.

Who the hell ever invented this timing belt crap, and worse, made the engines the use them interference???

Nick, to think when I started back on the old forum, I was only 34. Now I'm 41. How the time goes!

I agree with you 110% on Transman over at BAT... that guy is awesome. Few people possess the kind of transmission expertise he has, but he's also outstanding in other mechanics as well. I wouldn't think of letting anyone but him work my own tranny, just like I wouldn't think of letting anyone else but the fine folks here work on my own MVAC... if I didn't know what I was doing in that area. I just wish I had a Bohica or MrBillPro close by for HVAC... that's another area that's really hard to find honest expertise in. That's one of the reasons why I've still got wall units and window shakers. They work well, I get inside temps in the upper 60F range on the hottest of days, but indeed not the most "elegant" way to cool.

Joe

Chick on Tue September 11, 2007 5:02 PM User is offlineView users profile

"Nick, to think when I started back on the old forum, I was only 34. Now I'm 41. How the time goes! :
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Dam Joe, you're just a kid...I have shoes older than you (not to mention a kid or two... I have "21" years on you...Now my back really hurts...
Ahh, yes, the good old days, or as Billy joel would say..."The good old days wern't always good".... Sure beat the hell out of todays crap!!! I often wondered why they went to rubber timing belts. especially on cars where they are near impossible to change..(Unless you pull the motor..)

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

NickD on Tue September 11, 2007 5:07 PM User is offline

Quote
Who the hell ever invented this timing belt crap, and worse, made the engines the use them interference???

To my knowledge, only Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mitsubishi, and I understand that a Chrysler 3.0L also uses one. Our 98 Escort ZX2 has a very heavy rubber belt, manual says to check it at 125K. The DOHC 2.4L engine in the Cavalier uses a constantly engine oil chain and GM claims they spent billions of dollars to make it quiet, it is quiet.

Supra isn't due yet, mileage wise, but also 19 years old, and we know what happens to anything made out of rubber in 19 years. I thought the 3.0L Nissan V-6 was bad, have to start on the Supra by removing the radiator, think I may have to drain it first and hope I can remove it without wrecking the condenser or the intercooler and need a special pulley for the crankshaft pulley. Have fun, get better

jsmitty on Sat September 15, 2007 10:21 PM User is offline

I recall the very first Ford Escorts being an interference engine (1983). Probably explains why they're as common of a sight today as the passenger pigeon.... (among the hundreds of other poorly engineered parts)

JJM on Wed October 24, 2007 1:25 PM User is offline

Update...

It's been a pretty warm October here in NYC - especially yesterday - so obviously the A/C is still needed. I'm finding the interior is pretty warm, and notice the blower is running on high. Then I notice the drivers side is warm, passenger side and rear cool. Lift the hood in the parking lot and notice the compressor is cycling more frequently than usual. It's only a matter of time now before the BCM kicks out the compressor and I get the "SERVICE AC" message on the dash. Most likely I'll find more goo on the compressor discharge hose - and will post pics accordingly.

Not even 3 year old, and the thing is leaking. The A/C on my '84 Olds 98 Regency is all original and the only thing that leaks a little is the typical R4 shaft seal, and get's topped off with R-12 and some oil every few years. The A/C on the wife's '01 Camry XLE has never been touched and works fine.

Also gotta replace the OnStar GPS antenna (PITA job) - it's intermittently knocking out the navigation GPS signal now.

With nearly 53,000 on the clock, I don't think there's ever been a more than 5,000 mile trouble-free run with this thing; it's always been something or another. It seems the only way you can have a trouble-free GM vehicle - especially a Cadillac - is to buy it new and get rid of it after it has 1,000 miles, otherwise you're going to have problems.

Joe

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: www.ACKits.com


Cussboy on Wed October 24, 2007 2:42 PM User is offline


"With nearly 53,000 on the clock, I don't think there's ever been a more than 5,000 mile trouble-free run with this thing; it's always been something or another. It seems the only way you can have a trouble-free GM vehicle - especially a Cadillac - is to buy it new and get rid of it after it has 1,000 miles, otherwise you're going to have problems."


In two words:

Cadillac
GM

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