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what do you guys think of what i did with my ac

john,??? on Wed September 05, 2007 12:04 AM User is offlineView users profile

Year: 91
Make: chevy
Model: camaro
Engine Size: 350
Refrigerant Type: R134
Ambient Temp: 95ish
Pressure Low: 20
Pressure High: 220
Country of Origin: United States

so I have a 91 camaro which was an R12 system and a crashed 95 s10 pick up which was a R134, so first I took the condenser from the s10 and put it in my camaro, thinking it would help my ac blow cooler while at idle in stop and go rush hour on 100* days we get in Florida(also upgraded fans from a 4th gen ls1 camaro). so after I swapped the condenser I found that my oem compressor was leaking, well being cheap and hearing that the newer style compressors are better. I mounted the one off the s10 and mounted it up. flushed everything out, added 12oz of oil, sucked it down and charged it with R134. set the low press switch for 20psi from the 30 it was at.

now for the questions. to make the compressor fit, I had to flip it 180* from how it was mounted on the s10, will that matter? the drain plug (which i just learned tonight was a drain plug, I wondered what that bolt was for. I drained the oil by turning it up and letting the oil run out the back) is at about 8 o'clock when looking at it from the front. also I was told by a buddy of mine to use a red orifice tube from some ford, when converting. so I did, but now I'm 2nd guessing that since I used both the compressor, condenser and fans from a 134 system. should I have just used the white gm one? or maybe the 40$ variable one I hear they sell but don't know what it does.

it seems to work well, blows 40* at the vent on a 90* day while stopped at idle, on max but if I'm cruising for a while, it gets warmer. not much but a little. where I would say with the low vent air flow on these cars vs. newer cars, 40 is the warmest I'd like to see. closer to 32 would be nice haha. I put gages on it and stuck them under the wiper and drove around where I could see what was going on. it was around 24 at idle and as soon as I took off it went to 20 all the time on the low side(no cycling) high side moving around a lot. was up around 220-250 while stopped but dropped as soon as I started to move, down to about 150 within about 30sec while driving. is this normal?


so far I've learned a lot from reading stuff on this board and I just found it tonight, wish I would have found it before I put it together. could have asked these questions before I did it lol. but do you see anything crazy wrong with what I did and if not, any ideas on making it blow a little colder. while I'm pretty happy with what I have for very little money into it. I'm kinda enjoying learning about ac systems and how they work.


thanks for any input, good or bad. ahah oh and while I was hooking all this up, the lines were apart for a day or two. should I have changed the drier? it was changed once years ago when it was first converted(wrongly) to 134. how long is too long? I'm 2nd guessing not changing that too. it is very humid in Florida and I've heard just having it under vac for 30mins isn't enough.

GM Tech on Wed September 05, 2007 10:05 AM User is offline

I can only assume your S-10 was a six cylinder which uses the R-4 compressor-- the 4 cylinder engine S-10s used the V-5- which has a drain plug-- and CANNOT be mounted upside down- since the internal mechanism oiling is dependent on oil covering the high friction areas.

The R-4 compressor (pancake style) has no drain plug- so I am confused as to what you did- you can mount an R-4 upsidedown with no oiling problems- Mercedes did it OEM.....

Perhaps your S-10 had an aftermarket hang-on air system-- in which case it was a Sanden compressor most likely- which you were able to make bolt up to your Camaro......

-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

john,??? on Wed September 05, 2007 10:27 AM User is offlineView users profile

the compressor is off from a 4cyl 95 s10. it is painted all back like its been replaced, but i just guessed it was an autoparts store one.

here's a pic of the compressor, you can seen the drain plug, which i had to clearance a bit to fit




the car has a few days of driving on it, maybe about 6-8 hours of run time. would it have locked up by now if it was going to because it wasn't mounted right.

john,??? on Wed September 05, 2007 10:46 AM User is offlineView users profile

edit* its only turned about 90* from how it was mounted on the truck. i was thinking i flipped it all the way around for some reason. i hope that helps it live for a while.

mk378 on Wed September 05, 2007 11:30 AM User is offline

That's a V5. Expect to have trouble because the oil is not going to flow properly. Quit using it before it messes up your system.

Edited: Wed September 05, 2007 at 11:33 AM by mk378

john,??? on Wed September 05, 2007 12:09 PM User is offlineView users profile

well crap.... I'll have to stop using it and find away to turn it 90*... this should be fun lol.




bad thing is I called a local compressor rebuild shop and they wouldn't give me any info at all. just wanted to rebuild my old one. they could have just said you can't turn that one upside down because it has a drain plug and will burn up. if they would have spent a min to explain it, I prob would have bought a new replacment one from them. now, screw them.



thanks guys. I'm sure you saved me a lot of head ache

john,??? on Thu September 06, 2007 1:16 AM User is offlineView users profile

ok so after work today, i remade some stuff and mounted the compressor so that the drain plug is straight down. hope i didn't hurt it while it was wrong and thank you to you guys again for telling me before i found out the hard way.


now back to the other question up there... any thoughts or which orifice tube to use and such.

and now to add a new one, the Universal In-Line Filter, when i break this system down again, i would like to put one in it. it says it has an orifice tube in it, but can be removed. if i'm reading it right, i could put one on the high side compressor output before the condensor, right? so if something does happen to this compressor i wouldn't have to buy a whole new condensor. just buy the oem style compressor.

HECAT on Thu September 06, 2007 8:47 AM User is offline

Yes, you can use the filter in line as just a filter without using the orifice that comes with it. Surely the orifice option is why the normal installation is to put it after the condenser (high side pressure-liquid). Without the orifice, one would think it could be installed in any line. I think I did read in the filter literature that it can be used in the high side gas line. But I would have to reread or consult the manufacturer to confirm this. Why not?

I wonder if there is any data (probably not) to confirm its capable of handling the potential ballistics involved in a catastrophic compressor failure; or could the internal filter screen just end up as another piece if debris in your condenser? There's another one for my R&D wish list.


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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

GM Tech on Thu September 06, 2007 9:40 AM User is offline

The drain plug is NOT what determines position- The control valve does--it should be mounted so the control valve is at 6 o'clock- - the drain plug (15mm hex head bolt) would then be out at the side of the compressor. The control valve is held in by a snap ring and is in the rear head as shown in your first photo-- it should always point down............the painted pumps were OEM till the end of '95 model yr- so yours may still be OEM especially if it has a blue label.........

The mechanism that needs to be "under" the oil level is the guide pin and brass slider ball- which is directly in line with the control valve- I have seen failures of this mechanism when oil starved- so if you don't mount this correctly- you will soon have a seized compressor- double check how it was mounted on your S-10 and you will see what I mean...........

Also the V-5 does not need to cycle- albeit you probably have it wired to do so through the cycling switch on the accumulator as it was for the R-4 it replaced- don't be surprised if it never cycles- suction pressure probably won't go low enough to trigger the switch........

The drain plug is meant to use to drain the compressor OFF the vehicle- no one ever drains one as mounted on the vehicle-- so this is where your confusion lies-- just make sure the control valve is pointing staright down +/- 15 degrees

Your V-5 should have an internal suction screen in the suction port- a nice feature to keep out the debris - so I would not recommend any other type of filters.............the OT and the suction screen should suffice.......

-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

Edited: Thu September 06, 2007 at 9:50 AM by GM Tech

NickD on Thu September 06, 2007 10:59 AM User is offline

The only way to protect the condenser from compressor debris would be to mount the filter at the inlet of the condenser, here the filter would be subject to some pretty high operating temperatures. Another unknown undisclosed property of the filter is the insertion loss, if it is there to filter, would have to offer some restriction to the flow of refrigerant. May not be too bad when new, who knows what happens in a season or two?

One may ask, exactly what this filter is suppose to filter? Should be an air tight moisture free system with proper lubricant, yeah, engine oil get dirty due to blowby, but there isn't any blowby in an AC system. Typically a failed compressor is not the culprit in an AC system, rather it's the victim of induced moisture and loss of lubricant that are the results of leaks in other parts of the system. Shouldn't those areas be addressed. Is it worth the effort to install a compressor of uncertain quality that may already be headed down south into a system that can cause far my damage?

The V-5 runs all the time whenever the climate control calls for AC, but speaking about protection, later models used a single thermistor that prevents compressor operation if pressures get above around 390 psi or below freezing. There has to be such a control device as well in the donor vehicle, don't want to leave that out. Feel running this through a conventional cycling switch would make the compressor trip over it's own feet.

Pay heed to GMTech's recommendations.

john,??? on Thu September 06, 2007 2:42 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: GM Tech
The drain plug is NOT what determines position- The control valve does--it should be mounted so the control valve is at 6 o'clock- - the drain plug (15mm hex head bolt) would then be out at the side of the compressor. The control valve is held in by a snap ring and is in the rear head as shown in your first photo-- it should always point down............the painted pumps were OEM till the end of '95 model yr- so yours may still be OEM especially if it has a blue label.........



The mechanism that needs to be "under" the oil level is the guide pin and brass slider ball- which is directly in line with the control valve- I have seen failures of this mechanism when oil starved- so if you don't mount this correctly- you will soon have a seized compressor- double check how it was mounted on your S-10 and you will see what I mean...........



Also the V-5 does not need to cycle- albeit you probably have it wired to do so through the cycling switch on the accumulator as it was for the R-4 it replaced- don't be surprised if it never cycles- suction pressure probably won't go low enough to trigger the switch........



The drain plug is meant to use to drain the compressor OFF the vehicle- no one ever drains one as mounted on the vehicle-- so this is where your confusion lies-- just make sure the control valve is pointing staright down +/- 15 degrees



Your V-5 should have an internal suction screen in the suction port- a nice feature to keep out the debris - so I would not recommend any other type of filters.............the OT and the suction screen should suffice.......

hmmm... ok. I understand about no one draining one while on the car. I may have miss read and thought that was the referance point for down. I think your right about the drain bolt being on the side while on the s10. one of the reasons why I didn't think it mattered how I mounted it, the bolt was still on the side, just now the other side lol.


anyways, if so. that's the one way that I don't think I can hook the outlet line block to it. if so... I may just give up. custom line are out of the budget and this car hasn't had ac in years, so I'm used to. its not my daily driver anyways(even thou I did drive it more often with ac). the only real reason I didn't pull it all off to save the weight back in my street racing days, is because it added to the sleepier effect these cars had compaired to mustangs. I just got into having fun trying to swap stuff and make it work good for free. my buddy's shop converts these cars in what he calls the right way and they never blow cold enough for me to make it worth the grand they charge people. 45* vent temps on a 100* florida day may sound good and match the charts I've seen as in the good range but if I'm going to be sweating at red lights, I may as well just keep my money and roll the windows down haha.


as for cycling, no it doesn't cycle. the low press switch is turned down to under what the compressor runs. and as for the s10 having some kinda temp sensor for the evap. I've been all over it looking for one and I don't see anything.(I had to change the evap out back years ago and didn't see anything back they either) the compressor has two switches in the back of it. I thought it was a low and high press switches. since the truck has none in any lines or on the drier.



anyways, thanks for the help guys. I'm prob just going to give up at this point.

GM Tech on Thu September 06, 2007 2:48 PM User is offline

well then if a/c is not a big deal for your car- then let it alone- let it run for awhile- add a little extra oil and hope for the best- then if and when it locks up- it is no big deal- you've come this far - so see how far it goes- with enough oil and splash you may live a while----the two switcheas on the rear of the compressor or for low pressure shut off (low charge protection) and high pressure cut-out- although both are on the high side of the compressor

-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

john,??? on Thu September 06, 2007 3:14 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: GM Tech
well then if a/c is not a big deal for your car- then let it alone- let it run for awhile- add a little extra oil and hope for the best- then if and when it locks up- it is no big deal- you've come this far - so see how far it goes- with enough oil and splash you may live a while----the two switcheas on the rear of the compressor or for low pressure shut off (low charge protection) and high pressure cut-out- although both are on the high side of the compressor




that's kinda what I thought I'd do... leave it on and only use it if I need it. like say getting caught in the rain on a hot day or if the girl friend happens to be riding in the so called "race car" and bitches to much, I could put it on to keep her happy. I just didn't think that answer would go over to great on this site. you guys like to do things the right way and are a wealth of info that I can't seem to find anyplace else. like the press swtiches. I guessed high and low but searched and could only find them by colors and no clue what the colors meant. knowing that both are on the high side, I would have never known. which does help. since I used the condensor to orfice tube line off the truck, I lost my high press fan turn on switch. my stand alone dfi that runs the fuel injection has no pervisions for a/c so its not able to do it. I bet if I knew what the colors meant, I could find to go in the compressor to do that.


either way... thanks again for your time.

john,??? on Tue September 11, 2007 3:54 PM User is offlineView users profile

ok so, I tried to leave it alone but can't. I was working on setting up the new rear gear last night and somehow started looking at the compressor again, its like its was calling my name. I also seem to have the hose making press at work. so I can just mount it right and make my own hoses, which I noticed is pretty cheap to do, just not have done. can't find any sites that sell the compressor blocks thou, I'll have just reuse mine I guess.


so here's my question, and I know it won't be my last lol. since the V5 has two switch ports on the back, both being on the high side.(thanks gm tech) I have the one high psi cutout switch hooked up like stock and the other I'm not useing. durning swapping stuff over, I lost my port on the high line for the high psi fan turn on switch. does anyone know of a part number or a listing for these little swtiches that slide in the compressor that I could wire up to the fan turn on relay? if I remember right the stock r12 switch turned them on at 232. (I'd have to dubble check the book thou) would that also be right for r134?


the fact that the v5 doesn't cycle has pretty much left me with this being the compressor I want to go with. because my dfi setup isn't meant to have ac. it can't raise the rpms as the stock ecm does. so everytime the compressor cycles on the car stumbles and has to use the stall saver map to save it. even thou its a big v8, with the cam that's in it.. idle isn't the best. its a little out of its power band at 900rpm that it sounds good at haha.


thanks again guys, reading thru old post the last week or so, I've learned a lot but still have a lot to go. like changing the drier, I'm going to put a new one on this time for sure.

Chick on Tue September 11, 2007 5:08 PM User is offlineView users profile

You can send an e-mail to the guys at ACKITS.COM and ask if they have the GM manifold blocks that can hoses crimped on them..I know they are available, just can't find anything right now..You will need to know if you compressor is O-rings, or flat sealing washers, or 'stepped" sealing washer though...Hope this helps.

PS: if AcKits can't find them, You can probably shop at a scrap yard for an older set with plenty of line and just cut it where you need it, and use the manifold block....

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

john,??? on Tue September 11, 2007 6:05 PM User is offlineView users profile

e mail sent...


thanks, I may just stop at a junk yard and have a look around soon too.

john,??? on Sun September 23, 2007 12:59 PM User is offlineView users profile

I got a blue for OT today but its light blue. the parts guy looked up a 84 ford exp. this this the right tube, cause I thought they were dark blue.


oh and a 89 bronco came up red only for them.


weird, but want to make sure I got the right one, I think the red one was to small for this system.

Chick on Sun September 23, 2007 5:48 PM User is offlineView users profile

It's the right one, the dark blue is actually "purple", and is the smallest of them, used on Chryslers...

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

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