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1998 honda civic stupid leak Pages: 12

fastrc2 on Fri August 24, 2007 8:40 PM User is offlineView users profile

Year: 1998
Make: honda
Model: civic
Engine Size: 1.6
Refrigerant Type: 134

okay this car when i got it didnt have air at all, i located a whole honda option kit from a dealer in california, had it shipped over to me in michigan, and just after its one year warranty runs out i find a small leak. the high side service valve is leaking.when i take the cap off, while the system runs, i cans ee small bubbles int he base. no biggie. i wen to carquest had them match up my style of the valve core, with one for 134 air conditioning, and i sucked it down, replaced the valve, vacuum charged, and voila good as new. here i am a couple of months later, and its doing it again, i dont want to replace a whole discharge hose for 100 when the $2.50 valve core shouldve fixed it. what else can i do? just let it go, i doubt it will stop leaking, as the systems charge when i evacuated it for the replacement of the core, was 6 ounces low. any advice? [email protected]

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wish in one hand, poop in the other see which fills first.

Chick on Fri August 24, 2007 8:47 PM User is offlineView users profile

The cap is the primary seal on those service ports. You may have a leak somewhere else. Did you add UV dye? If not, that would be my first step along with electronic leak detection...Hope this helps..

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

fastrc2 on Sun August 26, 2007 1:23 PM User is offlineView users profile

i do not have any other leaks, and how is the plastic dust cap supposed to be a primary seal, it does have an o ring in the bottom, but me hand tightening it wont seal 250 psi, so what do you mean ts the primary seal? that makes no sense.

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wish in one hand, poop in the other see which fills first.

mk378 on Mon August 27, 2007 9:30 AM User is offline

Hand tightened, it will seal at 250 psi if the gasket is OK. It's designed to. Threads give a lot of leverage. You can verify the cap is holding with an electronic leak detector. Your leak may be in one of the joints in the evaporator case, those can be hard to find.

fastrc2 on Mon September 03, 2007 4:32 PM User is offlineView users profile

ok at the high side port i have a oil stain around it on the line, nothing else is leaking, the entire system is only 1, 1/4 yrs old. sisnce when is the cap supposed to be sealing the high side. from what i know the schrader valve is supposed to be the seal, and the plastic cap is supposed to just keep out dust and moisture from the valve. and yes a leak detector goes off with the cap on.

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wish in one hand, poop in the other see which fills first.

mk378 on Mon September 03, 2007 6:17 PM User is offline

Put a new cap on then. Don't buy the generic caps found on cards in discount parts stores, get a decent OEM one. Make sure it has exactly one rubber gasket in it.

The shrader valve is really only necessary to keep the whole charge from blowing out when you unscrew the cap. Seriously. The cap is intended to be the seal.

avx on Mon September 03, 2007 11:19 PM User is offline

I posted just recently about the valve core in another vehicle. From what I found in the process, Honda should use a JRA type valve core and those are not very prone to leaking. So you may indeed have a problem there, but do not put much faith into a Carquest core. I have a pair of both Carquest and factory cores and they're not the same. One of the Carquest cores even seems to have a cocked threaded plug, although maybe it would straighten itself when installed (but I don' want to damage a suction line which is a huge pain to replace on a minivan with rear AC).
In any case, maybe the first thing to do is listen to the pros and seal it with a factory cap.
I understand a cap from most any late-model Japanese make should work.

Edited: Mon September 03, 2007 at 11:22 PM by avx

HECAT on Tue September 04, 2007 9:47 AM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: fastrc2
i do not have any other leaks, and how is the plastic dust cap supposed to be a primary seal, it does have an o ring in the bottom, but me hand tightening it wont seal 250 psi, so what do you mean ts the primary seal? that makes no sense.

The same o-ring will seal in its captivated position (hand tight) in hydraulic systems operating at 5000 psi. Technically, the strength of the plastic threads would be the pressure limit of the cap, and because all of this type of stem valve will have an acceptable leakage rate; the cap has been designed to see full (high side) pressure for it's entire life. This does not rule out the fact that the port installation in the discharge hose may be defective and leaking.


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FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

fastrc2 on Wed September 05, 2007 5:20 PM User is offlineView users profile

so if i want to stop the leak from the cap if thats where it is coming from, then i need to tighten it more? maybe with pliers? the high side port does not remove from the hose, so i dont think it can leak from its weld to the hose.

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wish in one hand, poop in the other see which fills first.

HECAT on Wed September 05, 2007 5:27 PM User is offline

It is designed to seal hand tight if the cap, o-ring, and port are all in good condition. Wrench tightening is not recommended and should not be necessary as it will crush the o-ring and distort the plastic threads. It can leak from the weld if the weld was defective all along.

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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 


Edited: Wed September 05, 2007 at 5:28 PM by HECAT

fastrc2 on Thu September 13, 2007 9:31 PM User is offlineView users profile

okay i finally have pressures and temps! i hooked it up and measured at high blower, not in recirc on a 75 degree day, 28 low 150 at idle, then 20 low 150 high at 1200 rpm dash vent temp was 46 to 50 and on recirc only drops to 44-47 i evacuated it founf 1.0 pound in it, it is supposed to have 1.2-1.4 in it, replaced the leaking high side valve core, vacuumed deep for 20 minutes, [shop equiptment snap on machine] then charged 1.37 pounds and got at idle 32 low 140 high, 25 low to 170 high at 1200 rpm with temps the same in the dash as stated before. i don't know if i am just asking too much of the system or what, but it does seem to be that the trigger for the clutch to cycle is not the pressures, but the evaporator temp sensor. i checked to make sure it is not touching the evaporator but in the air stream as the factory designed. and unless that sensor, which the entire system is only a year old, is bad i dunno why. now i know if i revved the motor to 2000 and high or medium blower from out side air, the low side pressure dropped to like 20-25 and the vent temp was still only 44 on a 75 day? i know the heater isn't on at all, because i have checked it and the cables adjustment, i am at wits end on this system. what is keeping my ac so warm, when i first started checking my temps after i charged it i was getting 46-50 at the vents! i know it can do better. the fan for the condensor works great and the condensor is clean and no bent fins. my wives 93 delsol i converted to 134 has an almost identical system, except it uses pressure to cycle the compressor and it is fridgid! on a 90 degree day, if the car is moving, i will get goosebumps and sneeze from the cold! i hope sombody can help me! oh and the new valve core leaks, so i tried a mercedes high side service port cap which has a much better appearig seal, hoping it can hold the refridgerant in. i dont want to buy a $100 honda hose when an eighty cent valve core should fix it! so if there is anything else i can do or check please let me know!

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wish in one hand, poop in the other see which fills first.

Chick on Thu September 13, 2007 9:57 PM User is offlineView users profile

Check the suction line from the firewall back to the compressor, should be cold..If it is, check for a blend door problem allowing heat to blend in with the cool air..

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

2POINTautO on Fri September 14, 2007 5:36 AM User is offlineView users profile

Leak testing the evaperator. Drive the car around like normal during your daily routine while running the AC of course. Go back home or shop and park it with the fan off and the recirc on and vents to face and windows closed parked out in the sun. The HI side pressure will assist with pressurizing the LO side when the pressures equalize, the underhood heat of the engine will raise both pressures slightly for a little added force on the suspected leak. Have leak sniffer on and purged when you open the car door, it may set off the sniffer as soon as you stick it in the cabin. If not, put the sniffer in front of the center vent, turn on the key and turn on the blower fan, any gas in the evap case will blow out the vent and the sniffer will pick it up, it may only be a trace amount but that is your leak. Maybe let the car sit an hour after your road trip prior to testing. Open the door slowly as to not cause any suction through the vent (non recirc) system.

I cannot remember what it is called, I only seen mention of it one time several months ago and have never heard of it again, BUT, schrader valves have a mechanical name for the seating of the valve, each time you test tire pressure or adjust a schrader valve of any kind it will reseat in a different position, someone actually gave a name for that. Go figure. You did say that the cap hissed at you when you pulled it off, so it is holding some pressure, a leak is not a 250PSI leak, that is a fully opened schrader valve, not a minute leak. Lets agree to call the cap a "secondary containment field" for all you Trekies out there.

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Give all the dirty details
and dont forget the LO & HI pressures
Year, Make & Model would be nice too

mk378 on Fri September 14, 2007 9:30 AM User is offline

Could very well be a crack in the weld or other defect with the metal if a good cap won't stop the leaking. A used line assembly shouldn't be hard to find though the dealer price may not be that high on it either.

All TXV systems cycle on temperature. The pressure switch will always be closed during normal operation. If your compressor is cycling off before the vents reach 40 degrees and it's not a pressure issue, that would indicate a problem with the temperature sensor or reheating of the air after it leaves the evaporator.

Realize that the two-seater del Sol is a considerably smaller interior, thus easier to keep cool.

2POINTautO on Fri September 14, 2007 10:02 AM User is offlineView users profile

My Honda Odyssey had a bad temp sensor at the evap (thermistor), most vehicles I service get below 10C easy but mine cycled at 17C, I could put a digital thermometer in the vent and predict when the compressor was going to kick off and kick back on, system worked great, just not on extremely hot days.

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Give all the dirty details
and dont forget the LO & HI pressures
Year, Make & Model would be nice too

fastrc2 on Sat September 15, 2007 10:13 AM User is offlineView users profile

okay i know the low side line is getting cold, it drips with water! it does get cold, i dont have a leaking evaporator i still have a leak where the schrader seals to the hose, not the schrader sealing to itself[ the moving core] and i dont have a blend door issue, i used hose clamp pliers for holding coolant and fuel hoses shut for service, and they have special jaws that dont damage the hoses reinforcements within, and i put these on before i even started the car. i know its not a temp sensor thermistor issue, as at higher blower speed the system just cant keep up and blows warm, when i rev the motor the low side dropped and the dash vents got considerably colder, if it was the sensor it would be an all the time warm, where as i am very warm at idle and a lot colder while driving just not cold enough. i understand the del sol has a smaller interior, but i meant to add that when i use that car, i dont even have to put it in recirc, it can take the hot outside air and make it very cold, where as my civic struggles to cool either outside air, or recirculated air. i dont want to put on a used hose, and the new one as i had stated beofre is 100 bucks the hose isnt long or complicated. setting the leak aside because i had tested when it was just charged, what is causing my poor cooling? could it be a txv that is out of range with itself?

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wish in one hand, poop in the other see which fills first.

2POINTautO on Sat September 15, 2007 11:52 AM User is offlineView users profile

Your last post has all the symptoms of being undercharged.

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Give all the dirty details
and dont forget the LO & HI pressures
Year, Make & Model would be nice too

fastrc2 on Sun September 16, 2007 3:35 PM User is offlineView users profile

um, i have readings taken just after a charge, and readings before thate charge and my leak was only .2 pound difference over the past year. i know it has the 1.3 lb honda reccomends.

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wish in one hand, poop in the other see which fills first.

fastrc2 on Sun September 16, 2007 9:31 PM User is offlineView users profile

does anybody know what the spec is on my hondas system, for what its worth i have the style with the susper small condensor that looks like one square foot. the label that the kit came with says 1.2 to 1.3 pounds maybe its wrong and i am supposed to have more?

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wish in one hand, poop in the other see which fills first.

TRB on Mon September 17, 2007 10:41 AM User is offlineView users profile

Refrigerant capacity: 21.5 ounces

Low Side: 22 PSI
High Side: 230 PSI

90 degrees ambient - 30 percent humidity

Vent temp of 50 degrees

Listed information is to be used as a guide.

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fastrc2 on Tue September 18, 2007 6:29 PM User is offlineView users profile

ok so i do have the correct charge, so why do i have the readings i have, and lack of cooling? to those that said they think i have a low charge, look at the readings i posted right after i charged it. what else can i do? any thoughts on my txv? can it be out f range with itself?

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wish in one hand, poop in the other see which fills first.

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