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Ohhh, my aching orifice! Pull it out!!! Pages: 12

lutherfetch on Tue August 21, 2007 9:24 PM User is offline

Year: 98
Make: GMC
Model: Jimmy S-15
Engine Size: 4.3
Refrigerant Type: 134a
Ambient Temp: 100
Pressure Low: 0
Pressure High: 0
Country of Origin: United States

This sucks! I have posted before about my bellyleaker HT6 in my Jimmy. A big puddle has developed under the compressor since the last time I added oil. Decided that I would go ahead and pull the orifice to figure out whether I had a black death situation on my hands or not before placing my order with ACkits. Anyway, all was going swimmingly as I pulled the acculmulator. Went to pull the orifice, and, you guessed it, the #$%ing thing broke off.

Anyway, after an hour of trying to pry the pieces out and trying to blow it out with an air compressor, I decided to cut my losses and drill the @#$ing thing out. The thing is, I couldn't tell if I got it all or not, so I decided to pull the evaporator and take a look inside. Cue the ominous music here. DAH DAH DAH!!! Here is the part of the movie where you yell, "he's in the closet with a knife!" Nope, couldn't leave it alone. Busted the lower hose off the evaporator while wrangling it out of the plastic Fort Knox GM had it encased in. Oh the pain! So, I am calling it a night. I am sure the neighbors are all relieved.

Okay, let's pretend I knew what I was doing for a moment. Why in the [email protected]# did that orifice shred when I pulled on it? Maybe that is why it hasn't been all that cold.

The good news is I saw no evidence on black death in the oil that I blew out or the few large piece of screen. Just happy green oil. How bad of an idea would it be to have that tube Tig'ed back on there verses buying one out of a junk yard?

Please humor me and let me know what an intelligent person would have done in my situation. Plan on ordering my new compressor from ACK as soon as I know what all I am going to need.

Thanks... I hope.
John

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My Ongoing Project...
http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haflinger/photos/browse/b4d1

Chick on Tue August 21, 2007 9:33 PM User is offlineView users profile

It happens,... Be sure to flush the evaporator well especially since you have it out..Did I post the pics on how to cut that plastic out of the way?? Not that you need it now..Be sure to lube the O rings on the new O tube, and change as many O rings as you can when you put it together.. Use NYLOG assembly lube on all the o rings and threads..Get a good nights sleep, and remember that S%*^ happens...

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

TRB on Tue August 21, 2007 10:38 PM User is offlineView users profile

You are not the first to have an OT break on them. 3.5 inch dry wall screw down the center of the OT will get it out. Just run it in far enough to grab a hold of the OT.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

lutherfetch on Tue August 21, 2007 11:38 PM User is offline

Now there is a tip I could have used a couple hours ago. I knew, I knew I should have walked away from it and posted the problem before tearing the whole thing apart. Now I can add an evaporator to the list of things I have no money for. Anyway, what is the thought on having that tube welded on verses getting a new part from a junk yard?

John

-------------------------
My Ongoing Project...
http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haflinger/photos/browse/b4d1

GM Tech on Tue August 21, 2007 11:56 PM User is offline

I would not have even checked the orifice tube for a belly leaker failure- if the compressor was pumping fine when it has the right charge- I would have left the OT alone= and then taken the pump off and put new o-rings in it. If the first pull of the tube was an indicator- I would not pull on it anymore- and left it alone. Also there is a nice photo of the drywall screw method from a few weeks ago.

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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

lutherfetch on Wed August 22, 2007 12:48 AM User is offline

When I added oil to it several weeks ago, it was banging like a washine machine out of balance. There were several who posted that is was a mistake to add oil to it back then. The puddle underneath it said otherwise. The last set of readings I took on it before pulling it apart showed little difference between the high and the low side. I figured either the orifice was blown or the compressor dead. Either way I wanted to know what was going on inside before I dropped 200 bucks into a new compressor. God only knows what kind of gremlins were crawling around inside. So goes the theory anyway. When all is said and done, I still never got a good look at the OT tp make that call.

Still wondering what you guys think about me trying to repair the evaporator. I am debating sleaving it with copper tubing and soldering it together like a piece of plumbing. Any thoughts?

john

-------------------------
My Ongoing Project...
http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haflinger/photos/browse/b4d1

GM Tech on Wed August 22, 2007 10:36 AM User is offline

The only repair is to replace it- you can't weld copper to aluminum that I know of- those evaps aren't that expensive- and are pretty easy to change- the last three jobs that I have had trouble with pulling the OTs have all been S-10's- hard to get at- but the drywall scew works best- the last one I did had the OT in backwards-

see this link

-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

lutherfetch on Wed August 22, 2007 1:23 PM User is offline

Yeah, I thought about it last night. This is one of those situations where I can try and save a buck and end up spending hundreds to do it all over again. Not worth it. HAve a used evap coming for $40 (incl shipping). Also, placed my order today with ackits for a new Saltec HT6, dryer, orifice, nylog, PAG150, and GM O rings. Might as well do it right the first time and only do it once. Hate spending the money, but would rather have it right and not have to worry about it again.

Tim, love your site. Yeah, I know I am whining about the $350 this is going to cost, but without you, it would have been 7-800 at a mechanics shop... and God only knows what they would have cobbled together and sent me out the door with. I really appreciate all your help. The busted orifice was a $40 lesson. I can live with that. Don't know why I didn't think to heat that thing with a torch before hitting it with the compressor... do that all the time on ball joints and other stuck parts. I get pi$$ed off while working and can't think straight. These are the times I KNOW I am supposed to step back and think rather than grabbing a bigger tool... but this time I didn't.

Oh well, it is easily remedied. Will check in and let you know how it goes. PArts should all be here within a week.

john

-------------------------
My Ongoing Project...
http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haflinger/photos/browse/b4d1

TRB on Wed August 22, 2007 1:52 PM User is offlineView users profile

Thanks for the support. Keep us posted and feel free to ask if you run into any issues.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Chick on Wed August 22, 2007 2:16 PM User is offlineView users profile

YES, "BEFORE" YOU HIT IT WITH THE HAMMER...

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

lutherfetch on Wed August 22, 2007 4:36 PM User is offline

Hey now, no hammers were injured in the removal of the evaporator. I did get a four foot wrecking bar involved for proper "motivation" of all that plastic housing with the hidden screws. You know, the ones requiring Harry Houdini to find and reach. I'll show you ya stinkin' #$%*(! Come to daddy!

hehehe

john

-------------------------
My Ongoing Project...
http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haflinger/photos/browse/b4d1

lutherfetch on Wed August 22, 2007 4:37 PM User is offline

Tim, I really appreciate you being interested in my "issues". hehehehehhehehehehehehe!
John

-------------------------
My Ongoing Project...
http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haflinger/photos/browse/b4d1

lutherfetch on Thu August 23, 2007 12:47 AM User is offline

Okay, here is another question... is there any upside to running mineral spirits through the condensor while I am waiting on parts? Like I said, I could not tell the condition of the mangled orifice when it came out, but there did not appear to be black globs of goo anything like I saw during my Olds black death experience.

Don't remember who I talked to (Tim?) but was told that flushing the condensor would not make a diference if it was clogged. At this point, I have not reason to believe that it is. So, to flush, or not to flush, that is the question. Do I need to pull the condensor to flush this thing correctly or can I just blow it through. I suspect that will make a difference as to whether or not I am going to flush it or just blast it out with air. Looks like a pain to pull it if I don't have to.

Thanks again a/c studs.
John

p.s. If you want to really impress me and reach deity status, please answer me this trick question. Just exactly where in the #@!! did my 10mm socket and extension go? The Jimmy ate it... I heard it fall. But for the love of God I can't find it anywhere even with mirrors and lights. Answer this one and I will really be impressed.

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My Ongoing Project...
http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haflinger/photos/browse/b4d1

GM Tech on Thu August 23, 2007 10:27 AM User is offline

It's inside the frame - (the part of it under the oil pan) under the engine- slipped through the small opening on top- retrieve it with a magnet from the side opening...................I don't flush the condenser- I haven't seen a need to- I monitor head pressure and double check the OT after repair- 98% of the time it is okay............haven't seen "black-death" on a GM for years-----not since late 80's models.....although everyone still talks about it-- just my humble opinion and experiences.............

-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

Chick on Thu August 23, 2007 4:02 PM User is offlineView users profile

Fish around that opening with your magnet and you may even find tools from other mechanics..If you find any of mine, please mail them back...

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

lutherfetch on Thu August 23, 2007 11:55 PM User is offline

Pulled the wheels off and everything looking for the stinkin things. It was a good guess. I figured that belly plate was a blackhole. Alas, no tools. I was ready to give up before I caught the glint of the socket jammed between the computer and underneath the plastic housing. Strangely enough, found a tire stem puller in there too. Chick, you missing one? Never did find my extension. It has gone to the beyond with all my missing left socks.

Okay, will check back in when parts arive.
John

-------------------------
My Ongoing Project...
http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haflinger/photos/browse/b4d1

lutherfetch on Mon August 27, 2007 9:38 PM User is offline

Hey all,

Must begin by telling you that I am very dissapointed... I opened the box today, looked all through it, and Tim was not anywhere in it. Sigh! Guess I will have to put it in myself. Very dissappointing. Really showed up quick. Thanks. I am impressed.

Cleaned out my new old evaporator with mineral spirits. I also pulled the old orifice out of it (before flushing) andn it was in good shape. Nyloged the new one and slid it in long end first. I did NOT feel a positive stop while pushing it in. I did NOT force it any further though as it was snug and was in the same position as the old one. Am I okay so far? Evaporator is still on the bench. Let me know before I pick up the 5 lb sledge to snug it up.

Okay, here is the important part. I remember Bruce from Weekend Mechanic saying to always drain new oil from a compressor as you don't know what is in it. I held it over the trash and worked the outer clutch until it quit pouring out oil. It then dawned on me that a) I did not know how much I drained and b) I don't know how much was left in it and c) I have no idea what kind of oil was in there to begin with and I didn't flush it.

I would estimate that it drained between 2-3 oz. Anyone know how much oil these things ship with? I added about 6 of the 8 oz of PAG 150 to the new Saltec Valeo. Figured I could dump the other 2 in the new accumulator if you guys tell me to. I hooked up the compressor to the other two lines and blew out the oil from the lines. Quite a bit came out of the line that runs to the accumulator. None came from the condensor at all. I have not flushed it or done anything with it except seal both lines to it using the handyman's secret weapon.

So, before I go any further, what do I need to know? Do I need to push in the orifice to a positive stop? Do I need to add the extra 2 oz of oil? Tim, are you in another box that I need to be on the lookout for? Would hate to have you stolen off my porch.

Thanks for all the help, the great site, and the quick shipping. You are my knuckle busting heros.
John

-------------------------
My Ongoing Project...
http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haflinger/photos/browse/b4d1

Chick on Mon August 27, 2007 9:55 PM User is offlineView users profile

First, the O tube will have an arrow on it that is the flow direction, and the "short" end goes in, or towards the evap, not the long end... (more screen to catch junk) Oil, the system holds 8 ounces, if it was flushed then add the 8 ounces back.. Three or four in the compressor, rest in the accumulator..If you didn't flush the system, you add back only the amount needed for the parts you changed..Hope this helps..

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

lutherfetch on Tue August 28, 2007 12:40 AM User is offline

ok, sounds like the tube went in backwards. That would explain why it didn't hit a positive stop.

Still don't know how much oil to add. I replaced and flushed the evap and blew out the rest of the lines with the compressor. Any idea on how much oil that new compressor shipped with? I figured I drained about 2 -3 oz out of it before adding 6oz of Pag150. That seems to be the critical question at this point.

Thanks.
John

-------------------------
My Ongoing Project...
http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haflinger/photos/browse/b4d1

TRB on Tue August 28, 2007 12:45 AM User is offlineView users profile

If you have a clean system just put back the OEM stated amount. What ever is left in the compressor will not be enough to effect the overall performance. If you have oil in the system and think you drained 3 ounces, well!

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Chick on Tue August 28, 2007 5:10 AM User is offlineView users profile

Ok, Empty compressor, did not liquid flush the condenser or change the accumulator, add back 4 to 5 ounces, if you did flush the condenser and change the accumulator, add back the systems 8 ounces. Add three or four to the compressor, rest in the accumulator, once installed, turn the outer hub of the compressor a few times to move the excess out into the lines..Vac/charge and you should be fine..

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

lutherfetch on Tue August 28, 2007 12:52 PM User is offline

Okay, should be getting close. I have a new accumulator, new compressor, and a thoroughly flushed evap. As I said, I did not flush the condensor, just blew it out with a compressor as GM Tech said would be sufficient. Figured I drained about 2-3 oz out of the new compressor. I have added about 6oz of PAG 150 back. I should be pretty parn close. Think there could be another 2 oz hiding in the condensor and remaining in the compressor? Or should I go ahead and add the last 2 oz? Am I better to error with a bit too much or a bit too little oil? I am thinking a bit more is better.

As of the moment, I am thinking I will put in 1 more oz and call it good. I figure there is at least that much left from the orig oil in the compressor and hiding in the condensor.

Also, would appreciate you verifying how much 134a goes into this thing. 32oz?

Thanks.
john

-------------------------
My Ongoing Project...
http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haflinger/photos/browse/b4d1

TRB on Tue August 28, 2007 1:07 PM User is offlineView users profile

1 ounce would be my call.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Chick on Tue August 28, 2007 2:29 PM User is offlineView users profile

"Also, would appreciate you verifying how much 134a goes into this thing. 32oz? "
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32 ounces is right..Good luck and let us know how it comes out....


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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

lutherfetch on Tue August 28, 2007 8:19 PM User is offline

Altrighty then! That evap was a pain going in. Everything is up and running... and there is a strange pounding sound absent from under the hood. Hmmm. I added one more oz of PAG and then the 42 oz of freon. Anyway, here is where we are...

75deg outside
50 inside at 2000rpms
25 lowside
180 highside

Even at idle I have nice cold air coming through...

I am happy except that I never did find Tim in any of the boxes. I hope they left you some air holes.

Thanks again everyone.
John

ps. Just kidding about the 42oz! Put in 2 and what felt like the better part of half a can. Have no scale, but I think I am pretty darn close. I am pleased with the results. Thanks again.

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My Ongoing Project...
http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haflinger/photos/browse/b4d1

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